Did Rommel command a Tiger Tank in Africa ?

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makif130289

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Hi, this is a screenshot from HOI4 announcement thread:

1xjHOLy.jpg


Question : Were any Tiger tanks delivered to North Africa until Rommel's relief from command ?
 

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Stuckenschmidt

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Question : Were any Tiger tanks delivered to North Africa until Rommel's relief from command ?

Yes. The first Tigers saw action in early December 1942 and Rommel left in early March 1943. So that picture must show him in Tunisia. :)
 

Kovax

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For most of the North African campaign, Rommel has been said to have commanded from a half-track, not a tank. While numerous paintings and drawings depict him in a tank, I don't know if he ever commanded from one, and tend to doubt it.
 

Kaarle XII

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For most of the North African campaign, Rommel has been said to have commanded from a half-track, not a tank. While numerous paintings and drawings depict him in a tank, I don't know if he ever commanded from one, and tend to doubt it.

Would be such a waste to give a heavy tank to any high ranking officer, yet alone the theater commander.
 

Kovax

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A tank is not equipped with a map table, filing cabinets, and other equipment and facilities for running a HQ. A command version of a half-track either includes everything, or has room to bring it along, as well as the capacity for hauling a suitable sized tent or pavilion and seating, etc. Dedicating a tank to the task seems like paying a lot more to do a lot less of what matters most. Unlike in fantasy games, high-level commanders are not ranked and rated according to their own personal combat skills, even though propaganda and later hero worship tends to portray them that way.
 
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Graf Zeppelin

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He did use a captured British recon vehicle often if I remember right.
 
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Amallric

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Command tanks were standard in the Panzer units, this was actually a serious problem in 1941 since many of the available tanks were command tanks poorly suited for warfare. These tanks were specifically equipped(gun removed) to make space for the commander, they also had better radio systems. If not Rommel, then many other famous generals rode into combat with their tank. So no, having Rommel command from a tank is not such a ludicrous idea. It may not have happened as a matter of fact, but it is certainly plausible.
 

Kovax

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Command tanks were standard in the Panzer units, this was actually a serious problem in 1941 since many of the available tanks were command tanks poorly suited for warfare. These tanks were specifically equipped(gun removed) to make space for the commander, they also had better radio systems. If not Rommel, then many other famous generals rode into combat with their tank. So no, having Rommel command from a tank is not such a ludicrous idea. It may not have happened as a matter of fact, but it is certainly plausible.

Most of the "command tanks" were converted from obsolete PzKw. I chassis, from what the images I've seen depict (possibly Panzer Befehlungswagen?). A few early model PzKw.IIIs or IVs were apparently modified by the removal of the main gun (and a dummy gun added to prevent the command tank from standing out), but not in quantity. The idea was quickly abandoned. I have never heard of Tiger tanks being used as command vehicles.
 
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Graf Zeppelin

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There was a Tiger II command tank. Dunno about the Tiger I tho.
 

DByrden

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Were any Tiger tanks delivered to North Africa until Rommel's relief from command ?

Interesting thread. I can answer a few things.

The picture is not a photograph; it is a painting. Why peer at the tank's number? If the artist didn't copy a photo, or know about these vehicles, then he must have guessed a number.

There was "command" version of the Tiger. It contained extra radios but the gun was fully working. However it seems that none of them were sent to Africa because they were not ready in time.

Panzer turret numbers gave the tank's position in the organisation chart, so they normally had 3 digits; company, platoon, tank. The battalion's number was not meant to be painted on the tanks (but funnily enough, the 501 battalion in Russia actually did number a Command Tiger as "503" and so they may possibly have had a "501").

Rommel did operate within a tank at least once, during the invasion of France, but in Africa he preferred lighter, faster vehicles. Even if a Command Tiger had existed in Africa, it would not have been suitable for him to race around his front line telling his officers what to do.

The Tigers in Africa were not issued to the Afrikakorps and they were not controlled by Rommel. They were issued to the 5th Panzer Army and they were controlled by Generaloberst von Arnim. He actually refused to lend the Tigers to Rommel for the Kasserine Pass battle.
When Rommel got promoted to command all of the Axis forces in Africa, then he was technically in charge of the Tigers, but he was too busy on the Mareth Line to pay any attention to them. Ten days later he left Africa for good.


David
 
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gladius2metal

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Command tanks were standard in the Panzer units, this was actually a serious problem in 1941 since many of the available tanks were command tanks poorly suited for warfare. These tanks were specifically equipped(gun removed) to make space for the commander, they also had better radio systems. If not Rommel, then many other famous generals rode into combat with their tank. So no, having Rommel command from a tank is not such a ludicrous idea. It may not have happened as a matter of fact, but it is certainly plausible.
those command tanks were not intended for generals at all, from what I know from my German unit videos, those command tanks were used at division or lower levels, not corps level. Also the gun was removed but a dummy gun was added, thus we can assume they would see combat, something a general or above should avoid if possible. I know pictures from Guderian sitting in a command halftrack, this vehicle was way better suited than a tank for a commanding general. I doubt anyone commander beyond regiment or brigade level would use a tank for commanding his units.
 

The Super Pope

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Rommel may not have, but Montgomery did command from a tank

IWM%20(E%2018982).jpg

General_Bernard_Montgomery_in_M3_Grant_Tank_North_Africa.jpg


Interestingly, in the first photo you can see where the censor has removed identifying marks
 
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The Super Pope

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interesting, well, I guess I learned something new today. Do you know if it had a special layout?
It was a command version, which according to wiki was "Fitted with map table and extra radio equipment and having guns removed or replaced with dummies."

Montgomery's tank was preserved, and is in the Imperial War Museum

1280px-M3_Monty.JPG
 
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Gethsemani

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Even if Rommel didn't command from a Tiger tank, do you really think anyone would have denied the theater commander if he came up and asked if he could ride along for a while? During my stint in the army it was a fairly regular occurrence that higher officers (Battalion CO/XO and up) would randomly show up during exercises, stick around for a while while asking questions and checking things out, maybe tag along with a squad a little bit and then leave again. We always just assumed it was some sort of "checking out the troops"-thing.

Obviously a painting is a painting and it is far "cooler" to have Rommel in a Tiger then riding a Kübelwagen and thus more likely to get people interested in the game. But it is not impossible that he at some point rode in a Tiger in Africa.
 
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Yakman

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Even if Rommel didn't command from a Tiger tank, do you really think anyone would have denied the theater commander if he came up and asked if he could ride along for a while? During my stint in the army it was a fairly regular occurrence that higher officers (Battalion CO/XO and up) would randomly show up during exercises, stick around for a while while asking questions and checking things out, maybe tag along with a squad a little bit and then leave again. We always just assumed it was some sort of "checking out the troops"-thing.

Obviously a painting is a painting and it is far "cooler" to have Rommel in a Tiger then riding a Kübelwagen and thus more likely to get people interested in the game. But it is not impossible that he at some point rode in a Tiger in Africa.
otherwise, what's the point of commanding an armored unit? wins? victory?

nope. it's to ride around in a tank looking like a boss.
 
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Imgran

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otherwise, what's the point of commanding an armored unit? wins? victory?

nope. it's to ride around in a tank looking like a boss.
There were satisfactions of rank. And it was useful to have good photo opportunities even if you did not serve in a democratic nation. Perception is 9/10 of the law whether you're trying to impress one man or millions of men.
 

DByrden

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do you really think anyone would have denied the theater commander if he came up and asked if he could ride along for a while?

It's not impossible. For example, in February 1943, Rommel was attacking toward Gafsa while the Tigers of 1. company s.Pz.Abt. 501 were just miles away fighting at Sidi Bouzid. But they weren't his Tigers at the time, and he was sort of busy!
When he got promoted to theater commander on 23 February, the Tigers were already withdrawn to northern Tunisia. Rommel immediately had to go and handle the situation on the Mareth Line.

Ultimately we have to ask, where is the photograph of Rommel in a Tiger? It would have been almost inevitable that somebody would publish such a photo.

David