Diagnose My First Game

[Osiris1975]

Hi,

I've noticed that this forum has some people who must have PhD's in EU4 because I'm amazed at how good some of you are, and thought maybe someone could give me some guidance. I'm (re)-playing my 'first' playthrough as Castile and I admit to feeling a bit lost especially when it comes to making money. I've read a bunch of guides, watched several videos, and I grasp some things better than others. My biggest problem though seems to be simply not having enough, money.

Here's what I have done based on what I think I know from reading guides and watching videos:

1. I built churches in any province where the income increase was at least .10.
2. I built workshops in any province that had a trade good that had a price of 3.0 or higher.
3. I built marketplaces in Sevilla. Also in Murica and Cuenca because when I had the build screen up, they seemed like they would add atleast one trade power by building them. Not sure if that was a good move or not.
4. I have one merchant collecting in my home node and the other steering from Tunis.
5. I destroyed most of my extra forts.

That said, I'm clearly not doing something right. Here's a screenshot of my economy screen:

Happy to take any other screens or share my saved game file if that would be helpful as well.

I think my biggest mistake in this game is allying with Portugal instead of taking them over. In my current save, they just recently lost a war, are one military level higher than me, and as you can see in the map even sold me one of their provinces.

I read that you should control 90% of the home trade node, but it isn't clear to me how I can do that without either building a ton of ships and going way over my force limit or by taking over Portugal.

Also, I'm in the process of integrating Aragon, which is taking forever, but I'm guessing should give me a foothold in the Genoa trade node. I'm also guessing if I can get control of it, I should move my home node their.

So does anyone here have some advice? Should I try to take Portugal over? I do have the Colonialism CB on them right now, but also an alliance and royal marriage with them.

Some other issues I'm dealing with:

1) My subject, Burgundy, keeps getting high liberty desire. I've tried to manage it through 'Improve Relations' diplomatically buy they already love me (+200) and I have done the occasional "Place Local Rulers" but it invariably keeps going up. What should I do? I would note I made them a March so not sure if that has anything to do with it.

2) I've also dipped my toes into colonization. It isn't clear to me how to get the trade income from my colonies back home though. It also isn't clear to me how I can keep my colonial troops ready for war when the army maintenance slider is global (I'd like to be able to reduce maintenance for my armies not involved in defending colonies from natives).

 

[Gans]

1. If you want control of your home node you really want to conquer at least the centers of trade. But if you go that far why not all.... Alternatively if they are weak enough you can ask for transfer trade power but I suspect Portugal has way too much dev for that. Also Spain can get Portugal under PU by a rare event but 1. it's not sure if it will ever fire since it does require Portugal having regency. 2. even if it does fire it will be often too late in the game.
2. You should never, ever integrate Aragon. Just click the button 'form Spain diplomatically' at adm tech 10 and it will be integrated immeditaly free of charge.
3. Collecting in your home node doesn't do much, you already collect there automatically, it only nets you 10% trade efficiency. Often it's better to steer there from other sources. Like the Caribbean.
4. You can significantly reduce liberty desire by building up trust to 100 by the Influence country GP action. Up to -20%. Short time solutions are developing some of their provinces or paying off their loans (if they do have some) Having more diplo reputation helps too. (trade in ivory, diplo ideas, influence ideas all give 2 dip rep each)
5. Colonization is a long term stuff, it doesn't pay off immediatly but when it does it means you will ge filty rich.

 

[Osiris1975]

1. If you want control of your home node you really want to conquer at least the centers of trade. But if you go that far why not all.... Alternatively if they are weak enough you can ask for transfer trade power but I suspect Portugal has way too much dev for that. Also Spain can get Portugal under PU by a rare event but 1. it's not sure if it will ever fire since it does require Portugal having regency. 2. even if it does fire it will be often too late in the game.
2. You should never, ever integrate Aragon. Just click the button 'form Spain diplomatically' at adm tech 10 and it will be integrated immeditaly free of charge.
3. Collecting in your home node doesn't do much, you already collect there automatically, it only nets you 10% trade efficiency. Often it's better to steer there from other sources. Like the Caribbean.
4. You can significantly reduce liberty desire by building up trust to 100 by the Influence country GP action. Up to -20%. Short time solutions are developing some of their provinces or paying off their loans (if they do have some) Having more diplo reputation helps too. (trade in ivory, diplo ideas, influence ideas all give 2 dip rep each)
5. Colonization is a long term stuff, it doesn't pay off immediatly but when it does it means you will ge filty rich.

Thanks very much for your response!

Regarding 1, you are right, they are won't accept a transfer of trade power. I'm gearing up for war with them.

Regarding 2... doh! Well, I didn't realize the low legitmacy was the reason I wasn't able to Form Spain Diplomatically. Thanks for directing me to look at that more closely. I've just gone ahead and improved my legitimacy so I can form Spain this way.

Regarding 3. I've seen conflicting advice on this all over the place. Some saying to do it, some not. Given I don't have much trade power outside of my home node (apparently even after forming Spain it doesn't seem like I have much Genoan node power).

Regarding 4, thanks very much! It looks like it would cost me over 300 ducats for that and I'm not making money, but once I am I can do this.

 

[Gans]

Regarding 3. I've seen conflicting advice on this all over the place. Some saying to do it, some not. Given I don't have much trade power outside of my home node (apparently even after forming Spain it doesn't seem like I have much Genoan node power).

Because there is no 'one true way'. If you can't steer more trade value into your node with that one merchant than the 10% bonus would give you, collecting is worth it. Otherwise it won't.
If you formed Spain, you should definitely collect in the Genoa node since it's an end node and what goes there cannot be steered away. But as you said since you still have not much power there, you would get a huge penalty for collecting there. What I would do in your place:
1. Make Genoa your home node and thus you will collect there without penalty.
2. Collect in the Sevilla node with one merchant where you have the most trade power.
3. Use the 2nd merchant to steer to Genoa from Champagne or Ragusa whichever nets you the most, or alternatively you can use it to get that 10% efficiency by collecting in Genoa.

 

[tnlyons]

1. Build the ships. You can safely go over the force limit by a little as long as the increased maintenance doesn't cost more than the ships net you in increased trade power. You can easily make 3+ extra ducats by having a ~50 light ships protecting trade. They'll also come in handy when you declare war on Portugal and need to blockade their stuffs for +1 seige.

2. Develop your gold mines. They'll net you a ton of money for just a few monarch points.

3. Put your merchant in the Caribbean steering trade.

4. With your colonies you'll want to feed 1 or 2 colonial nations. Go for the Aztec or Incan areas first. There are plenty of gold mines in the area to keep your colonies rich and they'll generate trade fleets which gives you a lump sum every so often. Manage increased tariffs with their liberty desire so you get as much money as possible but they don't want to revolt.

5.Ally a strong power in Central Europe (France or Austria) and go after Italy (specifically Geona trade node then Venice).

Make sure you don't have corruption. Only keep forts on your borders the ones in the middle of you country aren't as useful.

 

[Mrkew]

Because there is no 'one true way'. If you can't steer more trade value into your node with that one merchant than the 10% bonus would give you, collecting is worth it. Otherwise it won't.
If you formed Spain, you should definitely collect in the Genoa node since it's an end node and what goes there cannot be steered away. But as you said since you still have not much power there, you would get a huge penalty for collecting there. What I would do in your place:
1. Make Genoa your home node and thus you will collect there without penalty.
2. Collect in the Sevilla node with one merchant where you have the most trade power.
3. Use the 2nd merchant to steer to Genoa from Champagne or Ragusa whichever nets you the most, or alternatively you can use it to get that 10% efficiency by collecting in Genoa.

If you collect in more than one node, you lose the bonuses to trade power from steering. If you collect in your home node, it doesn't just give you more efficiency, but also 5% more trade power (or other bonuses) since the persia patch.
This is why using both his merchants to collect is the best once he forms Spain.

 

[Gans]

If you collect in more than one node, you lose the bonuses to trade power from steering. If you collect in your home node, it doesn't just give you more efficiency, but also 5% more trade power (or other bonuses) since the persia patch.
This is why using both his merchants to collect is the best once he forms Spain.

The heck cares about trade power? In the end trade is all about income. If that one merchant steers more trade value than 10% of the trade value you are actually collecting, its always worth it. And 10% is not that much of a bonus. Let's say you own Genoa node with 100%TP and you got ~45 trade value in the node. If by steering you can get more than 4.5 trade value extra into the node it worth more than collecting it. Ok this is an edge case example but the principle is the same even if you don't own 100% TP. If you can steer more than the 10% of the cut you are actually collecting it will still be worth to steer.

 

[gia257]

before you have many colonies and your home trade node is strong, collect in as many as you must (tell aragon to divert trade to you), but once you got a powerful home node and many colonial nations under you, go back to a single collection point (the home node), because those nations give a boost to your trade power, but only if you only collect in your trading port

 

[bly08]

collecting in home node has nothing to do with trade efficiency, it's a flat 10% boost to trade income.

 

[Gans]

And 10% trade efficiency does the same, boosts trade income by 10%...... I mean you can argue 'but its not the same' if it does the very same thing doesn't sound so persuasive. I haven't actually checked if it stacks with efficiency additively or multiplicatively or does it stack at all, but it works the same effing way.

 

[bly08]

stacks additively, you're right that they have the same effect and may as well be the same

 

[StefanFan]

before you have many colonies and your home trade node is strong, collect in as many as you must (tell aragon to divert trade to you), but once you got a powerful home node and many colonial nations under you, go back to a single collection point (the home node), because those nations give a boost to your trade power, but only if you only collect in your trading port

Isn't it worth it to collect in other places too, even if you have colonies, but you also own 2,3 trade companies?

 

[bly08]

It's probably worth it to collect everywhere except during endgame WC.

 

[peleliu]

Regarding your trade...

1. As already noted by others don't collect in Sevilla.

2. If you don't have the trade range for the Carib node then try a merchant in Safi and Ivory Coast and steer to Sevilla. Assuming you have some provinces in Safi you should have decent power in the node. A third merchant in Timbuktu steering to Safi and then on to Sevilla can help quite a bit. If Morocco is still a big presence then steer the Timbuktu trade to Ivory Coast which moves directly on to Sevilla. Although it might not make you quite as much money depending on controlled provinces, it has the added advantage of kicking Morocco hard in the wallet.

3. It is a good idea to check trade a minimum every five years to make sure you have optimal merchant placement and steering because wars, AI province development, and colonial ventures can shift the numbers pretty dramatically.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Set yourself up to vassalize Portugal. They will colonize most of the world for you. I would try for no more than ten of your own provinces in each colonial area, and then let Portugal fill in the gaps. This will give you two colonial nations in each region. This is good for several reason, the obvious ones being extra merchants and lower liberty desire.

 

[Virupaksha]

You won't make much from trade at this stage of the game. Generally with the first two merchants collect in nodes not your home node where you have some trade power and with a decent volume of trade coming through is the best.

No need for light ships, they make little difference. Keep a fleet for exploring and delete the rest. Test this by mothballing what you have, you will see virtually no drop in income.

Workshops paired with manufactories is where the money comes from at peace. If you don't have the tech for manufactories build workshops in preparation for them.

Gold comes from war. Attack and take their gold. You are sitting on 35,000 manpower, should never be this high this early unless you are planning to take on Ottomans or France, turn it into gold.

Colonising looks sub-optimal. What is the purpose of Alcantara? Ten province CN in Mexico through war is the initial goal.

 

[gia257]

Isn't it worth it to collect in other places too, even if you have colonies, but you also own 2,3 trade companies?

no, although I guess it depends

early game when you have few to no colonies yes, eg early game castille with burgundian inheritance, you got lots of power everywhere like english channel+genoa+venice on top of home sevilla (which you probably want to keep as home until you control an end node at 60%+ probably genoa, so that others steal less of your trade company and colony trade)

mid/late game when you focus all the trade of the world on a non-end-node, if no one else has access to it then you can collect on the end nodes on top of it, because the -40% penalty wont matter because no one is stealing from you. This is the usual collect in zanzibar strat (but keep cape off limits to everyone)

now someone like england, they got an end node, and it will receive all the trade of the world plus your local manufactories if you build them, plus colonies, but it will leak to whoever isnt conquered in europe, like the germans or french, each colony merchant boosts your trade power if you collect in a single node, so you use that to beat leaks with infinitely focused trade power


Not leaking money is important, because wherever you leak you start finding level 8 forts

That is a lot of power boosts you lose if you collect elsewhere, also if I put my light ships it makes france steal like only 10 a month which is important because they still havent upgraded all their forts yet (im at war so they are healing atm)

eg english channel gets 215 from the world, genoa has 62 but it is from the nodes not on the path to the english channel, so cant do much but privateer it, savoy is the only one collecting heavily from there so only one set of hard forts, id be getting less than 24% of it if I collected (because -% collect in node different to home) AND lose a lot of power on my home node, venice is not even worth considering

 

[Osiris1975]

Thanks everyone for the very helpful responses! Since I last posted, I declared war on Portugal and took over all of their CoT/Estuary provinces but since they had a pesky ally I wasn't able to take over ALL their provinces. Between that and Aragon merger my income now looks like this:

So about a 6x increase in my profit which is great! I decided to experiment with 50 light ships I built based on what people have been saying here. In increments of 10, I had them protect the Seville node and the Genoa node to see which of the two gave a better boost to income. Then I charted the result:

From this I learned having my ships at Genoa, where my trade power was much lower, had a much bigger impact than having them at Sevilla, my home node where trade power was already at 62%. The slope of the Sevila line is around 0.4 and for the Genoa line, 0.7. I'm guessing everyone here already knew this would happen. A valuable little experiment for myself at least. It does make me wonder why some people say to put 200 ships in their home node, though, which I've read somewhere. Doesn't sound like the most efficient use of resources.

 

[gia257]

Thanks everyone for the very helpful responses! Since I last posted, I declared war on Portugal and took over all of their CoT/Estuary provinces but since they had a pesky ally I wasn't able to take over ALL their provinces. Between that and Aragon merger my income now looks like this:

View attachment 324740

So about a 6x increase in my profit which is great! I decided to experiment with 50 light ships I built based on what people have been saying here. In increments of 10, I had them protect the Seville node and the Genoa node to see which of the two gave a better boost to income. Then I charted the result:

View attachment 324741

From this I learned having my ships at Genoa, where my trade power was much lower, had a much bigger impact than having them at Sevilla, my home node where trade power was already at 62%. The slope of the Sevila line is around 0.4 and for the Genoa line, 0.7. I'm guessing everyone here already knew this would happen. A valuable little experiment for myself at least. It does make me wonder why some people say to put 200 ships in their home node, though, which I've read somewhere. Doesn't sound like the most efficient use of resources.

an slope is a multiplication, if the home node is worth 1000, and the one with an awesome slope is worth 1...

also if you have 200 ships you probably want to privateer more, the nodes you dont focus on

 

[PhoenixG]

From this I learned having my ships at Genoa, where my trade power was much lower, had a much bigger impact than having them at Sevilla, my home node where trade power was already at 62%. The slope of the Sevila line is around 0.4 and for the Genoa line, 0.7. I'm guessing everyone here already knew this would happen. A valuable little experiment for myself at least. It does make me wonder why some people say to put 200 ships in their home node, though, which I've read somewhere. Doesn't sound like the most efficient use of resources.

The value of ships has a deminishing return value te higher your trade power in a nodes get. From experience around 50% it's break even and about 60% it's not really worth anymore.