dhs, ect- offtopic

[KnightCole]

During one of the streams I asked Randall Bills what he would change if he could go back and reintroduce the clans, and I remember him responding that if he could change anything he would remove DHS from engines. If HBS is going that route that's fine by me and give me hope for a future Clan expansion

Yeah, except if thats all you change, then certain Clan mechs will be [mod edit: forum is more E for everyone in language-T] up a creek without a paddle. Warhawk Prime? 4 CERPPC? But lacking 10HS? Since 10 of it's engine HS wont be doubles? THats a fairly significant amount of heat dissipation for an already insanely hot mech.

Maybe they will take the Clans and entirely rewrite the script for them, in that they dont just make the Clans 'superior in every way IS' clones. ISLL: 8-8, CERLL: 10-12, and instead, maybe they go with ISLL: 8-8, CERLL: 8-10, and with more heat, but more range. For the CERPPC, instead of a 15/15, super long range beast, they go with, ISERPPC: 10/12, more heat, more range. CERPPC: 12/14, slightly increased damage, and maybe some increased stability dmg, but more heat. Make Clans marginal upgrades over IS, instead of making it where you feel terrible for taking IS gear at all.

 

[TripleStrengthMisnomer]

Thankfully the CBT balance and rules going forward are the responsibility of the CGL dev team and consultants.

HBS BT is already divergent with their own implementation and tweaks including the hard point system. Do all the classic designs have to mirror the heat management of the TT versions?
They don't now in HBS BT, so why do they have to in success...?

The engine SHS versus DHS debate?
In my mind, halving an engine's weight for the trade-off of destruction if you lose a side torso was a healthy balance to an OP tech (Nevermind XXL,etc..) It made sense to rationalize that the XL engine was bulkier due to design but lighter. The extra "free" 10 HS mixed in with that bulk always bothered me and I consider to be unnecessary.

DHS should be able to be "mixed" and matched in a HBS mech IMO, in essence these are a modular part with effectively ingress/egress fittings and just happen to take twice as many crits and are much more expensive. What does it matter that the mech cooling system Daisy chains a few of these in with SHS...? This just seems logical to me.
I know there will be fire and brimstone over this but really? Do your thing HBS , it's already good....the masses will come around.... it's just a game...a very good one...

 

[Tnarien]

What sidelined Clan mechs? What are you talking about? Do you remember playing MechCommander Gold? Where were those sidelined Smoke Jaguar mechs charging the battlefield when you broke zellbrigen? What are you on about?

Mechcommander is a lot of things. A zellbrigen compliant combat sim is not one of them.

Ill try to explain. Within the rules of Clans there is something like Bidding. You only use as much force to take a target as you need. Because waste is very frowned upon within the Clans.

Lets say you are a Clan Commander and have 1 Cluster worth of stuff (5 Trinarys - 1 Trinary are 15 Mechs) . You want to take all the minerals of an ore mine on a Planet. You fly there and say, you want to take it. The Defender responds with "I will defend with (everything i have or a specific amount - in this case) my single Binary (10 Mechs)."

The attacking force now will not use their 5 Trinarys, they will bid under themselfs to see how gets the honor of fighting. At the start they are bidding their first bid. Normally something like their Trinary if it is lighter. If a single commander of a trinary thinks he only needs 8 Mechs, he can reduce his bid.

When he fights with a smaller bid than his opening and hes facing a loss, he can call down stuff from his previous bids, but at a loss of honor. If, for example, the Garrison Commander uses not only his Binary but more - hidden explosives, multiple mechs firing upon one (breaking the rule of Zellbrigen) or doing other unfair things, the field commander or unit CO can call down every single Mech at his disposal to wipe out the enemy for his unclanmanlike behavior.

Emphasis on the last paragraph here. If an opponent violates the tenets of zellbrigen their opponent is released from the restrictions that combat system provides. They are free to curb stomp the enemy with any and all means at their disposal.

 

[Jamey]

I mean, you can call it unbalanced if you think an Inner Sphere Mech should perform as well, ton-for-ton, as a Clan Mech. Then I guess it's unbalanced. But that's not what you'd want for a Clan vs Inner Sphere conflict. The whole point is pitting superior numbers with weak inferior tech vs inferior numbers of superior tech. That's the dynamic that the Clan arrival brought.

I call it unbalanced because Clan mechs can almost completely negate the advantages of speed and cover on the battlefield.

A Clan warrior (-1) with pulse lasers (-2) and a combat computer (-1) changes hitting on 12s (1 in 36) to hitting on 8s (15 in 36).

Outside of LOS tricks, there was nothing you could do to avoid getting hit by a well designed Clan force.

Then you add in the extra range, heat efficiency, weight efficiency, and damage. You then double down with the fact that omnimechs mean never having to leave home with a bad load out.

The net result was that speed based units like VTOLs, hovercraft, and light mechs were almost completely useless.

There is a massive difference between being more powerful and being unbalanced. Unfortunately, the Clans were unbalanced within the TT rules. The only balance factors were bidding and zellbrigen, factors that were often not dealt with well in TT.

 

[Daneiel Adder]

Because cERPPCs are very inflated. And they can be very strong, but the Adder doesnt have enough DHS to support them. I personally like the LRM Adders more. Adder A with 2 LRM20s has 100 BV less then the Stalker 3F, but would probably beat it on an empty field. It has enough Speed to stay outside of the Stalkers weapons, and it has double the LRM Firepower. It is crazy if you think about it. A small 35 Ton Mech can beat one of the biggest Mechs the IS can field.

My point was that the balance wasn't inteded to be one on one .

 

[Tnarien]

There is a massive difference between being more powerful and being unbalanced. Unfortunately, the Clans were unbalanced within the TT rules. The only balance factors were bidding and zellbrigen, factors that were often not dealt with well in TT.

Exactly. I think it's a pretty fair statement that when Clan-tech rolled out most players simply saw it as "ooh new shinies" and didn't bother to incorporate the (admittedly under-described and under-emphasized) rules of engagement that in-universe kept the super-pew-pew in check.

 

[Delta Assault]

Ill try to explain. Within the rules of Clans there is something like Bidding. You only use as much force to take a target as you need. Because waste is very frowned upon within the Clans.

Lets say you are a Clan Commander and have 1 Cluster worth of stuff (5 Trinarys - 1 Trinary are 15 Mechs) . You want to take all the minerals of an ore mine on a Planet. You fly there and say, you want to take it. The Defender responds with "I will defend with (everything i have or a specific amount - in this case) my single Binary (10 Mechs)."

The attacking force now will not use their 5 Trinarys, they will bid under themselfs to see how gets the honor of fighting. At the start they are bidding their first bid. Normally something like their Trinary if it is lighter. If a single commander of a trinary thinks he only needs 8 Mechs, he can reduce his bid.

When he fights with a smaller bid than his opening and hes facing a loss, he can call down stuff from his previous bids, but at a loss of honor. If, for example, the Garrison Commander uses not only his Binary but more - hidden explosives, multiple mechs firing upon one (breaking the rule of Zellbrigen) or doing other unfair things, the field commander or unit CO can call down every single Mech at his disposal to wipe out the enemy for his unclanmanlike behavior.

Yeah um, I know what bidding is, thanks. Thanks for not explaining what the history of the Inner Sphere is. I also know about that. Thanks. (Seriously, it's pretty galling to grow up with BattleTech since the early 90s and then have someone explain what bidding is to you)

My point is that this doesn't need to be depicted in a video game. Because like in games like MechCommander Gold, they don't show it. And it's fine. That's pretty much how it's always worked. The Inner Sphere always breaks zellbrigen. That's what they do. But it's okay.

Wolcott = Kurita and his forces break zellbrigen. They win and get loot. Clans go away.

Twycross = Kai Allard Liao breaks zellbrigen. He wins. Clans go away.

Luthien = Kurita and Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds break zellbrigen. They win. Clans go away.

Tukayyid = ComGuards break zellbrigen. They win. Clans go away (for fifteen years)

Why should this be different now? Why move away from a model that worked in MechCommander Gold?

I call it unbalanced because Clan mechs can almost completely negate the advantages of speed and cover on the battlefield.

A Clan warrior (-1) with pulse lasers (-2) and a combat computer (-1) changes hitting on 12s (1 in 36) to hitting on 8s (15 in 36).

Outside of LOS tricks, there was nothing you could do to avoid getting hit by a well designed Clan force.

Then you add in the extra range, heat efficiency, weight efficiency, and damage. You then double down with the fact that omnimechs mean never having to leave home with a bad load out.

The net result was that speed based units like VTOLs, hovercraft, and light mechs were almost completely useless.

There is a massive difference between being more powerful and being unbalanced. Unfortunately, the Clans were unbalanced within the TT rules. The only balance factors were bidding and zellbrigen, factors that were often not dealt with well in TT.

Yeah, that's not unbalanced. They're just more powerful.

And the balance factor was using CV, and then BV. Which came pretty late to the game, to be sure. But it works.

 

[Jaidenhaze]

Battle Value 1.0 was released in 1997 with Maximum Tech, that was quite a bit before BattleTech began to decline.

 

[Tnarien]

My point is that this doesn't need to be depicted in a video game.

It absolutely does. Otherwise you end right back up in the situation that the tabletop is in: the underlying lore components get shoved aside because players want more powerful gear.

You're doing an excellent job of demonstrating that concept in action right now.

 

[Delta Assault]

It absolutely does. Otherwise you end right back up in the situation that the tabletop is in: the underlying lore components get shoved aside because players want more powerful gear.

You're doing an excellent job of demonstrating that concept in action right now.

Nope, it doesn't. It worked great in quality games like MechCommander Gold. You don't like it, but that doesn't change the fact that these were satisfying and well-made BT games that the fanbase enjoyed. This strange refusal to accept it is your own personal bias coming into play.

I repeat:

Wolcott = Kurita and his forces break zellbrigen. They win and get loot. Clans go away.

Twycross = Kai Allard Liao breaks zellbrigen. He wins. Clans go away.

Luthien = Kurita and Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds break zellbrigen. They win. Clans go away.

Tukayyid = ComGuards break zellbrigen. They win. Clans go away (for fifteen years)

Where is the betrayal of lore? Why should this be different now? Why move away from a model that worked in MechCommander Gold?

 

[Tnarien]

Nope, it doesn't. It worked great in quality games like MechCommander Gold. You don't like it, but that doesn't change the fact that these were satisfying and well-made BT games that the fanbase enjoyed. This strange refusal to accept it is your own personal bias coming into play.

Yeah...no.

MechCommander is a real time strategy game. It is not a realistic interpretation of Clan combat dynamics.

Besides, if what you're saying is true then absolutely nobody would have reloaded Mission 2 solely to get that Mad Cat.

Oh. Right.

Wolcott = Kurita and his forces break zellbrigen. They win and get loot. Clans go away.

Twycross = Kai Allard Liao breaks zellbrigen. He wins. Clans go away.

Luthien = Kurita and Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds break zellbrigen. They win. Clans go away.

Tukayyid = ComGuards break zellbrigen. They win. Clans go away (for fifteen years)

Where is the betrayal of lore?

You're hilariously simplifying, misinterpreting and cherry picking your lore here.

At Wolcott, the Clans were out-bid (seriously, don't send a Smoke Jaguar to do a Sea Fox or Hell's Horse's job). The battle was performed according to the negotiated terms between Lincoln Osis and the Genyosha. Osis' problem was that he thought he was facing regular line troops, not elite Kuritan special forces who had been explicitly trained to fight on Clan terms (though admittedly they didn't know they had been trained to do this). As a result, after he was defeated Osis had no choice but to withdraw, or else disgrace himself and his entire clan.

At Twycross Kai Allard Liao did indeed break Zellbrigen and defeat an overmatched garrison cluster. The Clans retaliated with a counter-invasion by the Steel Vipers that smashed the FedCom forces defending the world, and did so without offering honorable combat to the Inner Sphere defenders.

At Luthien, no Batchall was offered, precisely because of the trick the Kuritan's pulled on Wolcott. No honorable combat was offered to the defending forces. It was a meatgrinder on both sides, which the defending Coalition won largely due to horrifically bloody attritive tactics. In more than one instance Kuritan units held their ground, but were wiped out to the last soldier. This was the Inner Sphere's Battle of the Line.

At Tukayyid, the Inner Sphere fought according to the technical rules of Zellbrigen. The problem the Clans faced is that their enemies used tactics that, while not technically breaching Zellbrigen, nonethless exploited the way that the Clans deployed and utilized their forces: most notably the kind of death by a thousand cuts tactics that worked on Luthien. The Inner Sphere bled the Clans dry of ammunition and supplies, weakening them and creating the circumstances of their eventual defeat. While infuriating, without an explicit breach of Zellbrigen's tenets the Clans were honor bound to adhere to the Truce they bid on.

 

[kvetcha]

You're hilariously simplifying, misinterpreting and cherry picking your lore here.

At Wolcott, the Clans were out-bid. The battle was performed according to the negotiated terms between Lincoln Osis and the Genyosha. Osis' problem was that he thought he was facing regular line troops, not elite Kuritan special forces who had been explicitly trained to fight on Clan terms. As a result, after he was defeated Osis had no choice but to withdraw, or else disgrace himself and his entire clan.

At Twycross Kai Allard Liao did indeed break Zellbrigen and defeat an overmatched garrison cluster. The Clans retaliated with a counter-invasion by the Steel Vipers that smashed the FedCom forces defending the world, and did so without offering honorable combat to the Inner Sphere defenders.

At Luthien, no Batchall was offered, precisely because of the trick the Kuritan's pulled on Wolcott. No honorable combat was offered to the defending forces. It was a meatgrinder on both sides, which the defending Coalition won largely due to horrifically bloody attritive tactics.

At Tukayyid, the Inner Sphere fought according to the technical rules of Zellbrigen. The problem the Clans faced is that their enemies used tactics that, while not technically breaching Zellbrigen, nonethless exploited the way that the Clans deployed and utilized their forces: most notably the kind of death by a thousand cuts tactics that worked on Luthien. The Inner Sphere bled the Clans dry of ammunition and supplies, weakening them and creating the circumstances of their eventual defeat. While infuriating, without an explicit breach of Zellbrigen's tenets the Clans were honor bound to adhere to the Truce they bid on.

 

[Kovax]

The only way it worked in MechCommander was because none of the Clan forces worked together. You took them on individually in most cases, or where they only had limited light vehicle support. If the Clan units had been allowed to group together to defend against you, or even go out after you as a group, then it would have been pretty close to "unwinnable" for the player.

Picture the previous scenario of an Adder against a Stalker: the Adder has the speed to maintain the range it chooses, and there's not a whole lot that the Stalker can do about it. That means, if the Adder pilot can't get a decent movement modifier and cover, he stays at 22-23 range from the Stalker and fires cERPPC bolts at it with no return fire possible. If he or she can manage a nice run into suitable cover that keeps the Stalker pilot's odds in the "no shot" or "snowball's chance" category, then the Adder may be able to close to medium range for much higher odds to hit.....not that its odds are bad already with an inherent gunnery skill advantage, or that the odds of being hit are all that hazardous at that range while piloting a faster chassis.

The IS pilot basically has no options unless he or she can engage at closer ranges where the odds of hitting are substantially higher, closer to the center of the probability curve, and therefore less unbalanced. When the odds of hitting are 3 in 36 (11+) versus 0 in 36 (13+), or 6 in 36 (10+) versus 1 in 36 (12+), the lighter and faster unit is going to win most of the time. When the lighter unit does twice the damage when it hits, the odds are seriously lop-sided. Double heat sinks take an already unbalanced situation and keep them unbalanced even where the IS manages to close the range, in which case the Clan units are more capable of maintaining their overwhelming firepower continuously, while the already less powerful IS units overheat or reduce their weapons fire even further to limit heat buildup.

As said by previous posters, Clan zellbringen rules were intended to balance gameplay between Clan and Inner Sphere forces, but it wasn't well presented or put into a format that lent itself to tabletop scenario generation. The result in too many cases was that you either played Clan, or lost. Any campaign where Clan and Inner Sphere forces face off is going to have to contend with the basic fact that the IS forces CANNOT win if the Clan side is given the option to maneuver and use its advantages to their full extent. Intentionally crippling the Clan side in some manner is essential, otherwise it's not fun for the IS side.
-----------------------------------------

As a side note, the WWII misconception about 5-6 Sherman tanks to 1 Tiger needs to be debunked. The typical M4A1 Sherman tank's 75mm medium-velocity gun was only able to penetrate the front armor of a Tiger at short ranges, but the sides and rear were vulnerable out to medium ranges. In close quarters, the Sherman's more rapid hydraulic turret traverse allowed it to line up shots more quickly, so a "knife fight" favored the Sherman. At long ranges in the open, the Sherman had close to no chance in a 1:1 fight, but there were few such situations on the Western Front; most of the time the line of sight was broken up by tree lines, buildings, or hills, and combat was at ranges where the Sherman was only moderately outgunned. Then the British "Firefly" and US M4A3E8 "Easy 8" models of the Sherman were introduced, offering a 76mm high velocity gun that could penetrate the front armor of a Tiger at range. From that point on, the new models of Sherman had improved optics, faster turret and gun alignment systems, better visibility for increased odds of getting that important "first shot", and higher reliability over the Tiger, making them roughly equal on the field under actual combat circumstances.....in the rare cases where the Allies actually used tanks against tanks. Normally, that's what Tank Destroyers and Anti-tank guns were for, or else air strikes were called in. The German tanks were designed for "head to head" engagements, where the Allies designed their armor primarily to support infantry, with fighting other tanks as a secondary role, if necessary.

 

[Delta Assault]

Yeah...no.

MechCommander is a real time strategy game. It is not a realistic interpretation of Clan combat dynamics.

Besides, if what you're saying is true than absolutely nobody would have reloaded Mission 2 solely to get that Mad Cat.

Oh. Right.



You're hilariously simplifying, misinterpreting and cherry picking your lore here.

At Wolcott, the Clans were out-bid. The battle was performed according to the negotiated terms between Lincoln Osis and the Genyosha. Osis' problem was that he thought he was facing regular line troops, not elite Kuritan special forces who had been explicitly trained to fight on Clan terms. As a result, after he was defeated Osis had no choice but to withdraw, or else disgrace himself and his entire clan.

At Twycross Kai Allard Liao did indeed break Zellbrigen and defeat an overmatched garrison cluster. The Clans retaliated with a counter-invasion by the Steel Vipers that smashed the FedCom forces defending the world, and did so without offering honorable combat to the Inner Sphere defenders.

At Luthien, no Batchall was offered, precisely because of the trick the Kuritan's pulled on Wolcott. No honorable combat was offered to the defending forces. It was a meatgrinder on both sides, which the defending Coalition won largely due to horrifically bloody attritive tactics.

At Tukayyid, the Inner Sphere fought according to the technical rules of Zellbrigen. The problem the Clans faced is that their enemies used tactics that, while not technically breaching Zellbrigen, nonethless exploited the way that the Clans deployed and utilized their forces: most notably the kind of death by a thousand cuts tactics that worked on Luthien. The Inner Sphere bled the Clans dry of ammunition and supplies, weakening them and creating the circumstances of their eventual defeat. While infuriating, without an explicit breach of Zellbrigen's tenets the Clans were honor bound to adhere to the Truce they bid on.

Getting that Mad Cat? What is wrong about that? People like getting new and better tech. I don't see the relevancy. No lore is getting shoved aside in reloading a mission in order to get a Mad Cat.

As for your other point: That's simply untrue. I'm going by the best lore that pertains to this current discussion. At Wolcott, they did not use Zellbrigen. Fact.

And that retaliation with a counter-invasion by the Steel Vipers has no bearing on the actual fight of Kai Allard Liao. What, we have to worry about counter-invasions on a strategic level because we focus fire on Clan Mechs in a mission in a video game now? This is silly.

The ComGuards did not fight according to the technical rules of zellbrigen. Are you telling me that razing an entire forest containing a Ghost Bear cluster is staying true to the rules of zellbrigen? Or a Hammerhead fighter doing a kamikaze run and destroying an entire Command DropShip? Or all of the ComGuards focus firing on Jula Huddock's star at Ollala? Or them all ganging up on Aidan Pryde at his last stand? I could go on and on.

 

[Delta Assault]

The only way it worked in MechCommander was because none of the Clan forces worked together. You took them on individually in most cases, or where they only had limited light vehicle support. If the Clan units had been allowed to group together to defend against you, or even go out after you as a group, then it would have been pretty close to "unwinnable" for the player.

As a side note, the WWII misconception about 5-6 Sherman tanks to 1 Tiger needs to be debunked. The typical M4A1 Sherman tank's 75mm medium-velocity gun was only able to penetrate the front armor of a Tiger at short ranges, but the sides and rear were vulnerable out to medium ranges. In close quarters, the Sherman's more rapid hydraulic turret traverse allowed it to line up shots more quickly, so a "knife fight" favored the Sherman. At long ranges in the open, the Sherman had close to no chance in a 1:1 fight, but there were few such situations on the Western Front; most of the time the line of sight was broken up by tree lines, buildings, or hills, and combat was at ranges where the Sherman was only moderately outgunned. Then the British "Firefly" and US M4A3E8 "Easy 8" models of the Sherman were introduced, offering a 76mm high velocity gun that could penetrate the front armor of a Tiger at range. From that point on, the new models of Sherman had improved optics, faster turret and gun alignment systems, better visibility for increased odds of getting that important "first shot", and higher reliability over the Tiger, making them roughly equal on the field under actual combat circumstances.....in the rare cases where the Allies actually used tanks against tanks. Normally, that's what Tank Destroyers and Anti-tank guns were for, or else air strikes were called in. The German tanks were designed for "head to head" engagements, where the Allies designed their armor primarily to support infantry, with fighting other tanks as a secondary role, if necessary.

1 - Sure. It's making a game with good gameplay and appropriate enemy opposition for a player. I think they did a great job with MCG.

2 - I had always read that about the Tiger, but I confess that I'm certainly no WWII history buff. If that really is a misconception that has gotten spread around, then I stand corrected. I was just going off of what I'd gathered online.

 

[Jaidenhaze]

To be fair, Comstar broke Zellbrigen on Tukayyid, but most Clans did not honor it to begin with on this Battlefield. It all started with the botched landing of Clan Nova Cat (they tried a Dropship-Hover to showcase their good DS-Captains, didnt go well) and the first push of Clan Smoke Jag, which started a giant meat grinder. After that, most Clans did not even bother with Zellbrigen, even the staunch Jade Falcons. Clan Wolf marched shoulder to shoulder in a extremely tight formation and focus fired the hell out of the Com Guards.

I want to play this so bad. Please let us be Focht!

 

[Tnarien]

Getting that Mad Cat? What is wrong about that? People like getting new and better tech. I don't see the relevancy. No lore is getting shoved aside in reloading a mission in order to get a Mad Cat.

Nowhere did I say reloading had anything to do with lore. It has everything to do with the fact that players wanting power will trump a system wherein that power is not constrained.

IE: a combat system where two unequal tech bases are pitted against each other.
IE: the entire sodding problem that Clan tech faces in the tabletop realm

Again, thank you very much for making my point for me.

At Wolcott, they did not use Zellbrigen. Fact.

Incorrect. The battle was fought according to the negotiated terms of combat between Hohiro Kurita and Lincoln Osis. Osis was just an overconfident moron who didn't believe an Inner Sphere force could stand up against him, and walked headfirst into an entrenched enemy in favorable terrain.

And that retaliation with a counter-invasion by the Steel Vipers has no bearing on the actual fight of Kai Allard Liao. What, we have to worry about counter-invasions on a strategic level because we focus fire on Clan Mechs in a mission in a video game now? This is silly.

You're mixing your metaphors again. You should really stop doing that.

The ComGuards did not fight according to the technical rules of zellbrigen. Are you telling me that razing an entire forest containing a Ghost Bear cluster is staying true to the rules of zellbrigen?

Ayup. Terrain is not a combatant.

Or a Hammerhead fighter doing a kamikaze run and destroying an entire Command DropShip?

Kamikaze runs by definition result in the death of the performing unit. From the Clan perspective, a Warrior sacrificing themselves in direct combat to benefit their unit or Clan is one of the most honorable things one can do. It's one of the only circumstances in which they will treat an Inner Sphere soldier as an equal.

See also: Tyra Miraborg.

Or all of the ComGuards focus firing on Jula Huddock's star at Ollala? Or them all ganging up on Aidan Pryde at his last stand? I could go on and on.

Aidan personally challenged each and every ComGuard mech on the battlefield. Zellbrigen allows for multiple combatants in such circumstances.

As for Jula Huddock, I'm unfamiliar with the reference you're making. Huddock is a Fire Mandrill exclusive Bloodname, and they didn't fight at Tukayyid. What source are you referencing?

 

[Kovax]

1 - Sure. It's making a game with good gameplay and appropriate enemy opposition for a player. I think they did a great job with MCG.

I'm not saying that it was a bad game. I'm saying that they had to intentionally set up the Clan forces so they couldn't coordinate, otherwise it would have been a bad game.

If you salvaged a couple of decent Clan weapons in that second scenario (the MadCat was the REAL prize, if you could take it out without having it explode), the entire game got really easy, otherwise it could be pretty tough until you salvaged some Clan equipment later on. Taking the MadCat pretty much intact in one game turned it into a turkey shoot (all those Clan weapons with the heat sinks to use them), and even salvaging just one of the cERPPS was a rather significant turning point, so I'm fairly certain that most players reloaded a few times until they got their MadCat. I consider it poor game design when one early event can decide the course of the campaign to such a degree, and reloading until you get it "right" feels like it's necessary.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

The best part of so much of this is that Jordan and Mitch spoke of their hopes for a CLAN INVASION expansion to BATTLETECH, 2 and a half years ago during the BATTLETECH Kickstarter. And Jordan has made very clear that underlying mechanics will change with BATTLETECH but that the "spirit" and "feel" of BattleTech will be preserved.

That means we'll get a HBS-translation of Clan Tech.

A HBS-translation of Zellbrigen.

A HBS-translation of Batchall.

And a HBS-translation of the ComGuards and what they bring to the BATTLETECH "table."

And with Jordan, Mitch, Mike, Kiva and all of Team HBS at the helm, I know my BATTLETECH: CLAN INVASION gameplay experience is in good hands (should we be fortunate enough to have enough Success to warrant HBS being able to follow through on Jordan and Mitch's hopes to develop it in the first place.) : )

 

[Delta Assault]

Incorrect. The battle was fought according to the negotiated terms of combat between Hohiro Kurita and Lincoln Osis. Osis was just an overconfident moron who didn't believe an Inner Sphere force could stand up against him, and walked headfirst into an entrenched enemy in favorable terrain.

Nope, they didn't use zellbrigen. And of course Osis was an overconfident moron, he was an evil Clan villain. Every Clan leader not named Ulric Kerensky was like that.

You're mixing your metaphors again. You should really stop doing that.

Nope. No metaphors here. Just addressing your ridiculous claim that we need to worry about counter-invasions across space and time when we're fighting missions in a video game.

Ayup. Terrain is not a combatant.

They used ComGuard Mechs to set the forest on fire. Those ComGuard Mechs are combatants. And the entire Cluster ran out of the forest, exhausting their heat dissipation, where they ran out into a trap set by the ComStar division. The Twelfth Division was dug into prepared positions and raked their fire across the Cluster as it ran out of the forest. That's not following zellbrigen.

Kamikaze runs by definition result in the death of the performing unit. From the Clan perspective, a Warrior sacrificing themselves in direct combat to benefit their unit or Clan is one of the most honorable things one can do. It's one of the only circumstances in which they will treat an Inner Sphere soldier as an equal.

See also: Tyra Miraborg.

That's not zellbrigen though. Tyra Miraborg didn't follow zellbrigen either.

Aidan personally challenged each and every ComGuard mech on the battlefield. Zellbrigen allows for multiple combatants in such circumstances.

I just flipped through my copy of Falcon Guard. Aidan didn't personally challenge each and every ComGuard Mech. He just fought a last stand while Selima rescued Diana. There's no zellbrigen here.

As for Jula Huddock, I'm unfamiliar with the reference you're making. Huddock is a Fire Mandrill exclusive Bloodname, and they didn't fight at Tukayyid. What source are you referencing?

It's in the Tukayyid scenario pack, as well as Robert Thurston's Falcon Guard novel. Please, read up on your BattleTech.