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PurpulaPhoenixum53

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In 1603, a Korean diplomat returned from China with theological books written Matteo Ricci. I had an idea for Korea (KOR) For the event I was think of something along the lines of this
"Christian Influences?"
requirements:
-Year is at least 1600
-has discovered either
-Portugal's capital (most of the time its Lisbon - id 227)
-Castile/Spain's capital (Madrid - 217 OR Toledo - 219)
-either Portugal or Spain
-Has discovered one province in the China super region
-Has discovered one province in the Korean region
- EoC/Ming
- Has opinion greater than 25 of Korea
OR
-one of following is true:
-owner of Canton (667)
-Has opinion greater than 25 of Korea
-owner of Bejing (1816)
-Has opinion great than 25 of Korea
-owner of Hangzhou (684)
-Has opinion greater than 25 of Korea
-Event can only happen once
MTH - 12 months

"One of ambassadors has returned from a meeting with the Son of Heaven. While his time was uneventful, as it mostly is, he has appeared to not returned empty handed. While he was there he met a most unusual man, who was foreigner. The man, he says, spoke privately to him about some strange story of his belief in his Son of Heaven and how he will lead him to immortality. Shockingly it appears as if our diplomat has had a change of heart about the ancestors and has converted to this man's faith and is now spreading books from this foreigner across the court and country. Now some of the conservative court eunuch's are demanding we do something about this subversive and potentially dangerous literature. However, showing leniency towards Westerners might allow us to attract them and use them for their artistic talents. None the less, my liege, we must choose."

"This material is a dishonor to our ancestors and our culture!"
- +
1 stability
- Gain Modifier "Korean Isolationism" (Grants -5% Development Cost, +10% Tech Cost, -2.5% stability cost, and -1 national unrest) for the rest of the game
- Clergy Estate (Yangban scholars) gain +20 loyalty , +10 influence

"We must denounce this literature, but will not take action against it."
-
Clergy Estate gains +10 loyalty, +5 loyalty
-20% of one random province in the Korean region
-Religion of Province changes to Catholic
- Province gains modifier (Western Contacts - Institution spread +20%, Missionary strength -1%)
-Add 50% support for one non-embraced institution in Province
-gain hidden country modifier "tolerates_catholics" for rest of the game

"Immortality? Find this man so it may be mine!"
-
Ruler's faith changes to Catholic
-State religion changes to Catholic
-Capital province faith changes to Catholic
-Gain modifier "Westerners Welcome' (-5% Tech Cost , +1% Institution spread rate, +0.25% missionary strength) until monarch death
-gain hidden country modifier "tolerates_westerners"

Additional pulse events:

"Jesuit Missionaries Arrive"
-Is Korea
- Year is at least 1600
-has discovered either
-Portugal's capital (most of the time its Lisbon - id 227)
-Castile/Spain's capital (Madrid - 217 OR Toledo - 219)
-either Portugal or Spain
-Has discovered one province in the China super region
-Has discovered one province in the Korean region
-has hidden country modifier "tolerates_catholics"
-MTH 60 months
"Every since we have begun to tolerate Westerners in our realm, more and more foreigners have come to spread their false religion among our people. More and more of our priests have been demanding that we expel all these Westerners and their followers as they worry that the Westerners will subvert the people's trust in our blessed monarch, with strange tools and ideas. Yet, these tools appear to show that we falling behind these Westerners"

"Let them preach as they please. What's the worse that could happen?"

-
One of the possible outcomes
- 60% one random non-Christian province in the Korean region converts to Catholic
- 20% one random non-Christian province in the Korean region converts to Catholic and on one random province in the Korean region Confucian Zealots spawn
- 10% on two random provinces in the Korean region Confucian Zealots spawn
- 5% two random non-Christian provinces in the Korean region convert to Catholic
- 5% Ruler faith changes to Catholic
- -1 stability
- Clergy Estate -20 loyalty , - 20 influence
-
"They are becoming like flies on a hot summer day. Get rid of them and their followers, permanently."

- One random Catholic province in the Korean region loses 1 base tax
- All Catholic owned provinces in the Korean region change religion to Confucian
- Clergy +10 influence and +15 loyalty

"Bring some of them to the court to teach me,my heir, and the court about the wonders of the West!"
-
50% chance of either:
-50% ruler gains either +1 admin power, +1 diplo power, +1 mil. power
-50% heir gains either +1 admin power, +1 diplo power, +1 mil. power
-A Spanish Catholic Natural Scientist becomes available for hire (this advisor will +25% more expensive)
-Discover/Reveal Rome (118) and one random European province

"European Missionaries Arrive"
-Is Korea
- Year is at least 1600
-has discovered either
-Portugal's capital (most of the time its Lisbon - id 227)
-Castile/Spain's capital (Madrid - 217 OR Toledo - 219)
has discovered
- England/Great Britian's capital (London - 236)
- one province in the North German region
Either
- Borders Russia
- Has Discover Russia/Muscovy's capital ( Moscow - 295)
-either Portugal or Spain
-Has discovered one province in the China super region
-Has discovered one province in the Korean region
-Has hidden modifier "tolerates_westerners"
- MTH 60 Months
"Ever since we have embraced Christianity, Europeans have been more willing to trade with us. As a result we have seen a burst of technology, weaponry, and culture; but apparently some Westerners haven't' been informed of our conversion to Christianity and have been spreading their vile heresy across our country. However, my lord, what's most distressing some conservative nobles have riling up the peasants against us claiming we have betrayed the Mandate from Heaven. Do we deal with the peasant rabble or the heretical missionaries?."

"We must expel these heretical missionaries!"

-
50% Confucian Zealots spawn on one random province in the Korean Region
- 40% Noble Rebels spawn on one random province in the Korean Region
- 10% Peasant Rebels spawn on one random province in the Korean Region
- get modifier "Increased Narrow-mindedness"
-get modifier "Open to Westerners" for rest of the game (-2.5% tech cost, +1% institution spread rate, -1% idea cost, +1 diplomatic reputation)
- Nobles Estate -20 loyalty, -10 influence

"We must seek to compromise with these conservatives!"

- one random province in the Korean region converts to a heresy
- Gain modifier "Western Restrictions" ( -10% stability cost, +5% tech cost, +2.5% idea cost, -5% missionary strength)
- 10% peasant rebels spawn on random province in the Korean region
- +20 influence for Nobles Estate

If you see an error or potential bug, PLEASE let me know. Now, I know that Korea doesn't normally live long enough for this to be of use to them, but I think a slight Nerf to Korea to help them survive might be useful. That's all for tonight! If I think of anything else, I'll it it below.
 

Tuktuk

Second Lieutenant
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Jan 2, 2020
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Unnecessarily. In real life, Catholicism entered Korea only in the 19th century. Yes, there were earlier Catholics - but they had no influence on Korean society.

Large-scale persecution of Christians with tens of thousands executed is 1839, 1840, 1841, 1846, 1866. What is already behind the period of this game.

And this is state persecution and not some rebel Zealots.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Korean_Martyrs
 

PurpulaPhoenixum53

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Unnecessarily. In real life, Catholicism entered Korea only in the 19th century. Yes, there were earlier Catholics - but they had no influence on Korean society.

Large-scale persecution of Christians with tens of thousands executed is 1839, 1840, 1841, 1846, 1866. What is already behind the period of this game.

And this is state persecution and not some rebel Zealots.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Korean_Martyrs
Yet, there are events and decisions for China to convert to Catholicism. Sure, there were more missionaries after the time frame of the game, but the most influential missionaries came in the 1600s and as such I was trying to think of way to allow Korea to experience such missionary efforts, without being too ahistorical; which is why on the main event, the historical decision leads to no other events. It just blocks off, while choosing an historical path, allows for ahistorical results. Besides, if the missionaries aren't clamped down on immediately its very possible that they start to push the boundary with more and more militaristic and hostile rhetoric. Thus, its possible that some Korean peasants could be radicalized to revolt. Besides there are other historical ironies in the game that more unbelievable than this, such as reforming the Roman Empire. In comparison, these events are tamer, and bit more historically plausible.
 

Tuktuk

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Jan 2, 2020
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n China, the situation is different - even negotiations with Russia in 1689 were conducted by Jesuits and not by the Chinese themselves.
In the 17th century, the Jesuits controlled almost all of China's foreign policy.

In Korea, the some identity of Catholics accidentally appeared.

In the 16th century there are no Catholics Koreans - there are Japanese Catholics and two or three monks accidentally passing by.

The first baptized Korean is the year 1784 of Yi Seung-hun. In 1801 he was executed.

In 1801 there were about 300 Catholics and all of them were executed.

Those. it is a marginal group of people.

Moreover, in China it is completely different - the state level.

In Persia there were much more Catholics during this period. The account went to tens of thousands. However, Persia is a Shiite state and the influence of even so many Catholics was negligible.
 

PurpulaPhoenixum53

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In the 16th century there are no Catholics Koreans - there are Japanese Catholics and two or three monks accidentally passing by.
Nonsense. The sources I found indicated that there were indeed Catholic Koreans. Apparently, Jesuit priests as early as 1593 were coming to Korea to proselytize and baptize Koreans. During the Imijin War, a Japanese Diamyo even married a Catholic Woman who took the Western name of Julia. However, formal concerted missionary efforts only started at the end of the 1700s with Yi Seung-hun, as stated above. Even after he left the total of Korean Catholics was estimated to around 4,000.

Sure, the influence of the Korean Catholics was minimal and small, but these events would add flavor to relatively bland Korean game where, you either conquer most of East Asia or sit still and try to stabilize your country and improve the development.
 

Tuktuk

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provide your sources - we will discuss their reliability. Do not say that the person talking to you is talking nonsense.
 

PurpulaPhoenixum53

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provide your sources - we will discuss their reliability. Do not say that the person talking to you is talking nonsense.
I wasn't calling you nonsense, just your fact.

As for sources. I did this on a quick dive in Christianity in Asia and as such used wikipedia and other online encyclopedia. There aren't many English Sources on this material, so its the best I have.
 

Tuktuk

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I wasn't calling you nonsense, just your fact.

As for sources. I did this on a quick dive in Christianity in Asia and as such used wikipedia and other online encyclopedia. There aren't many English Sources on this material, so its the best I have.
These are empty excuses - if you make an offer to create an event - this proposal must be confirmed by historical sources - this is not a fantasy game.
 

PurpulaPhoenixum53

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These are empty excuses - if you make an offer to create an event - this proposal must be confirmed by historical sources - this is not a fantasy game.
This is game is practically a historical fantasy game at this point, with the facts that you can form the Roman Empire and revive Roman culture. This game is more than a historical game. What is important for this event is the fact of Christian Missionaries in Korea, which there were. The devs don't care how many there were, just how influential they were, which for an isolationist Korea would be very influential. Even you acknowledge that there were some Christian Missionaries in Korea during this time, .

Secondly, the second you start a new game, all history behind the game goes sideways and becomes irrelevant. From that moment onward, you are in an alt-history timeline. Thus, since Jesuit missionaries did indeed stop by in Korea and even had significant influence in China, its highly probable that Jesuits would have begun intense efforts to convert Korea, thus the DHE at the start has a historical basis, with some historical then the two follow up events for choosing an alt-history choice. Sorry, if I've come off defensive, but you are simply taking the historical aspect of this too seriously. Sure, when I make proposals I try to do as much research on the topic as possible and try and find online sources for it, but there comes a point where there simply ARE NO SOURCES for the topic. At which point I take the history that we know and do my best to make an event. Since there is limited sources on this topic, current history can only go so far. Thus the "Christian Influences?" is indeed influenced by an actual event that occurred where during the 1600s, a Korean diplomat returned to Korean court with some religious books by Matteo Ricci. We don't know what happened to said books and the diplomat, hence the event. The player would get to choose if they want to take this unique opportunity to open themselves up to Christian missionaries from the West, openly convert, or follow to possible historical outcome of persecution.

Finally, I demand an immediate apology from you as you are calling me a liar. I am telling you the truth here. There aren't any English sources on this type of stuff and for you to ask for stuff is equivalent for you to ask me to find an exact number of grains of sands, its near impossible.
 

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These are empty excuses - if you make an offer to create an event - this proposal must be confirmed by historical sources - this is not a fantasy game.
  • Pirate Republic Italy vs all of Europe.
  • 1550 American independence.
  • Slaveless plantations.
  • 1444 England being highly-populated and developed.
  • Egyptian conquest of West Africa
  • Venetian military dominance over the Ottomans
  • European units being able to annihilate every man in a 20k man Aztec army over the course of five days, just because Europeans are magical.
  • West Africa not knowing anything about Feudalism at the game's start.
  • The Americas being shifted northward to make colonial distance numbers look like they aren't skewed towards Europe.
  • India and China being subjected to total military conquest by the Europeans in the 16th and 17th centuries.
 

gigau

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Let's calm down.

Discussion is about a historically plausible feature in an open-ended game.