Devs taking stuff from Mods and adding them to updates?

[Meglok]

What is this? Didn't know we were having a childish fight over who had which idea first

I welcome every positive change or addition Paradox implements into the game. I really do not care too much who came up with a idea first. Overall we all just want the best experience possible, don't we?

Yea verily, and amen

 

[Robosoldier1]

idk why people are coming off so hot under the collar about this. I am trying to get a gauge of how paradox goes about the development of content. Particularly the generation and implementation of said Ideas in various aspects. Paradox has shown great interest via social media of several mods. Many of which a few bits and pieces inspires around new or refined systems and pathways that so happen to make their way into the game. I ain’t trying to make this a legality thing or even a originality aspect. Only that I see a lot of alignments coming from mods.

Sure I do take issue in how closely some of this stuff lines up to one another. But it doesn’t seem that egregious to point it out. The devs give a lot of tools to mods to make stuff so it is only natural to see stuff transition over. I just want to be sure paradox isn’t overlooking the fine tuning elements because they know they can rely on mods to hopefully address it to some degree “that seems acceptable idea” and then boom it pops up a few months later.

Ultimately a good idea is a good idea. But having It come from paradox at least for me has a lot more value to it. So seeing this trend occur continuously kinda degrades that value to me a bit. It’s like paying for a meal by a prestigious cook but it turns out it was your neighbor that made it instead. Again kinda cheapens it a bit in expectation.

 

[Fulmen]

What is this? Didn't know we were having a childish fight over who had which idea first

I don't understand the purpose of this thread either. Comes off mostly as a bait thread for, like you said, childish fighting over who had X idea first.

Regarding NML, it's clear PDX effectively copy-pasted most of it into vanilla. Personally I would've preferred the far more detailed, numerous and realistic impassable terrain of HoI3, but what we got is still better than nothing. Would the OP have preferred PDX didn't listen to the community and continued having tanks driving through the Sahara or over the Himalayas being a thing in the game?

PDX games have always had a vibrant mod community and I think it's great if devs take inspiration from popular creations by modders, or are even pressured to correct some of their sillier development choices, as was the case with NML.

 

[arehnm]

Now just to point this out I got no problem Devs taking inspiration from moderators nor am I trying to be malicious when I present this topic. Or insinuating that the moderators themselves are even the ones who solely originated some of the ideas (since we have had previous Hoi games) and simply took that step to introduce them into this current iteration. However doesn't it seem weird that various elements at this point have been integrated into the game based around the model the moderators integrated months ago and for some maybe even years? Just to also Add these are not exact rip offs mind you but these are some serious heavily influenced additions that makes me scratch my head because of the very aligned similarities.

• Introduction of No mans land borders (particularly Africa) (couldn't tell ya who did it first but it showed up around a year or 2 ago and lord and behold when the new update came around in that same time frame the area was changed accordingly by Paradox)

• Motorized Vehicles carrying artillery and such (again same case only its now getting placed in this upcoming update)

certain focus tree pathways

• Trosky: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374673631&searchtext=Trotsky (April) (dev Diary October)
• British: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384292518&searchtext=imperial (May) (dev Diary July)

Alot of these for some of you might seem like the obvious "next step" for certain elements and are just overlap. Which in of itself is not a bad thing but it defiantly cheapens them a bit in regards to thinking there "new" when in reality there just old and tested ideas in a different paint scheme.

Ideas I feel that are coming or being refined based off previous Paradox interest with certain mods
Espionage system
Politics system
certain country pathways or takes on how to design their focus tree

Welcome. This is paradoxforum. You are totaly right. Everyone smarmy.

I think most of users are bot. Others troll

 

[Robosoldier1]

Welcome. This is paradoxforum. You are totaly right. Everyone smarmy.

I think most of users are bot. Others troll

Nah I don’t believe that. I do believe though they run to the battlements pretty dam quickly. Also once a dev gets involved people tend to dog pile if the dev so happen to disagree with the notion being presented. Just the nature of the beast. Though it does get tedious seeing the same forumites assert themeselves If they smell blood in the water.

 

[bitmode]

Ultimately a good idea is a good idea. But having It come from paradox at least for me has a lot more value to it. So seeing this trend occur continuously kinda degrades that value to me a bit.

When it comes to hoi4 I'm not picky where good ideas are coming from. Heck I'd even prefer if they did away entirely with attributing the modders if that helped remove friction from the process. There's really no point rewriting something that already exists and you have the rights to use. Please devs, do it much more!

 

[Indyclone77]

Nah I don’t believe that. I do believe though they run to the battlements pretty dam quickly. Also once a dev gets involved people tend to dog pile if the dev so happen to disagree with the notion being presented. Just the nature of the beast. Though it does get tedious seeing the same forumites assert themeselves If they smell blood in the water.

You say that Paradox devs have stolen from a mod that I and a friend of mine made (British Overhaul) which is categorically not the case, Different paths, different ideas and a completely different design ethos to the Paradox tree.

 

[Daelyn75]

idk why people are coming off so hot under the collar about this. I am trying to get a gauge of how paradox goes about the development of content. Particularly the generation and implementation of said Ideas in various aspects. Paradox has shown great interest via social media of several mods. Many of which a few bits and pieces inspires around new or refined systems and pathways that so happen to make their way into the game. I ain’t trying to make this a legality thing or even a originality aspect. Only that I see a lot of alignments coming from mods.

Sure I do take issue in how closely some of this stuff lines up to one another. But it doesn’t seem that egregious to point it out. The devs give a lot of tools to mods to make stuff so it is only natural to see stuff transition over. I just want to be sure paradox isn’t overlooking the fine tuning elements because they know they can rely on mods to hopefully address it to some degree “that seems acceptable idea” and then boom it pops up a few months later.

Ultimately a good idea is a good idea. But having It come from paradox at least for me has a lot more value to it. So seeing this trend occur continuously kinda degrades that value to me a bit. It’s like paying for a meal by a prestigious cook but it turns out it was your neighbor that made it instead. Again kinda cheapens it a bit in expectation.

Why do you take issue with taking ideas from mods? And why does it cheapen the game to do so like you wrote in an earlier comment?

Personally, I think it's great. I and I assume nearly everyone here has no issue with it. So why do you?

 

[SaydaNeen]

idk why people are coming off so hot under the collar about this.

To be honest, I think the community is handling this pretty well? no one is threatening nor are they calling you out or attacking you. They're giving their view of your opinion and their opinion on the mod to DLC situation, and it seems everyone is on the same page and have the same opinion including the modders themselves. Even the Community managers have responded multiple times and has left this thread going even though it really shouldn't or doesn't have to.

Everyone knows there are similarities between new content and mods but as said before, it's a historic game based on the world from 1936 therefore content will be limited to logical outcomes from that era.

 

[Robosoldier1]

To be honest, I think the community is handling this pretty well? no one is threatening nor are they calling you out or attacking you. They're giving their view of your opinion and their opinion on the mod to DLC situation, and it seems everyone is on the same page and have the same opinion including the modders themselves. Even the Community managers have responded multiple times and has left this thread going even though it really shouldn't or doesn't have to.

Everyone knows there are similarities between new content and mods but as said before, it's a historic game based on the world from 1936 therefore content will be limited to logical outcomes from that era.

Well when you got people insinuating it’s nothing but a bait troll post simply because I point the obvious alignment here between the two. Makes ya wonder why it comes off so angst? I never said they stole stuff I never said they didn’t give credit. Only that a lot of ideas that lingered in the modding commmunity gets put in game and the question to the extent that it will go to.

I say its cheapened cause it comes off as this big leap when the leap was already made or very much remains the same in principle. I mean what did they add to motorized artillery that makes it different from the mods? What makes no mans land standout Then compared to the mod besides the area in which it took up? Why is their iteration of alternative focous tree paths worth the cost of money when the mods arent? even though they practically simulate the same intended outcomes for the most part? Just seems like paradox is just taking the chance to piggyback on popular standout community side additions and making them mainstream. As if they wouldn’t have been brought into the picture otherwise and only if the update aligned in some thematic manner. Which you can take however you want.

There is even a joke in multiplayer for what mod to use and people 90% of the time say “no mans land” for the obvious fact there is no point now but back then it was such a big deal and still does play a part. But now just doesn’t feel as weighty or meaningful as it once did.

 

[Gort11]

It would be much worse if Paradox considered gameplay elements and concepts off limits because a mod does them.

It would basically be impossible to do an expansion.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

If I made a mod and Paradox decided to implement its features into the game I'd be glad.
Firstly it showed that my idea was great - if I got credit for that or not - and secondly it wouldn't be my (free chosen, granted) responsibility anymore to maintain it.

The other thing is that implementing mod's content into the game means for people like me who exclusively play Ironman that they can actually use that “mod“. Otherwise NML* or motorized artillery or specific focus trees would be unavailable to me.

*That one is special, because I still don't like it and would have prefered a more dynamic solution. So it's kind of a bad example but I guess my point is clear.

 

[kaguravitro]

Pretty much this. We are not averse to taking ideas from mods, but if we do so we ask permission and give credit. For instance, I took the name lists for the newly-added tags from the Millennium Dawn mod, with their permission, and gave them credit in the dev diary.

As for Focus Trees touching on similar topics such as Imperial Federation for Britain and Trotsky for Mexico; it's almost as if we're using the same exact source material called 'history' to base our designs on, isn't it...?

the developer!! + 150

 

[Reinner]

I have a question for OP, so what's your opinion on Bethesda? A company that fully relies on modders because devs are too lazy to fix bugs and where modders make their games better like it happened with Skyrim, Fallout 4 and 76.

 

[DukofDeth]

I suppose, Robosoldier1, is that people tend to assume that by posting your thoughts within the forum you were making a point or possibly even suggesting something akin to an accusation. Naturally, people get defensive about that. I've tossed out a lot of thing in the forums, not bothering to put in more thought to what I was typing, or how I was typing it, and gotten [figuratively] smacked upside the head for it. Too many post without thinking enough about what they are posting, then get huffy when they are misunderstood, or are understood but just wrong and get called out on it. Frankly, your original post did seem like a complaint.

As for originality - not even the EULA is original. I've seen those words in so many games, that even when I scroll right to the bottom, I'm rather certain of what I am skimming. For the rest - I'm in agreement with the others - do it more. If it makes the game better, then do it more.

Sorry if my reply seems out of place - I took my time [followed my own advice, and tread carefully]

 

[Daelyn75]

I say its cheapened cause it comes off as this big leap when the leap was already made or very much remains the same in principle.

So you would prefer that they didn't take ideas from mods? All we want is a good game, and could care less about where Paradox get's their ideas from. I don't see how it's cheapened.

What does this mean? A big leap when the leap was already made?

 

[Robosoldier1]

Is it really so alien to want paradox to take a stab in some of these neglected areas in some unique manner and not just have them appropriate/base changes off stuff from mods? I know we are already going snail speed and leaving it to them would just increase that. With the potential of it being lackluster nonetheless as is shown for stuff like liscencing for SP and so on.

But a lot of these mod attributes excluding certain focus tree pathways. I have already gotten major exposure to because of the competitive multiplayer scene. Because of the popularity of their inclusion and what it did to differentiate the game. Ultimately I suppose my wow and expecation factor has been burned out to a degree and while it’s a general step forward for the community and game. Doesn’t feel like one for someone like myself.

 

[Claude Luster]

Is it really so alien to want paradox to take a stab in some of these neglected areas in some unique manner and not just have them appropriate/base changess off stuff from mods? I know we are already going snail speed and leaving it to them would just increase that. With the potential of it being lackluster nonetheless as is shown for stuff like liscencing for SP and so on.

But a lot of these mod attributes excluding certain focus tree pathways. I have already gotten major exposure to because of the competitive multiplayer scene. Because of the popularity of their inclusion and what it did to differentiate the game. Ultimately I suppose my wow factor has been burned out and while it’s a general step forward for the community and game. Doesn’t feel like one for someone like myself.

I think I understand what you're trying to say here. That being said, I think it's also in "Damned if we do, Damned if we don't"-territory for Paradox.

If Paradox didn't implement popular ideas/mechanics and instead focused on things no one, or at least a minority, are asking for, I think someone would post the thread titled "I don't mind Paradox focusing of really creative and unheard of additions, but..." and then point out the fault in Paradox ignoring these great ideas from the mod community that would enhance the game for everyone.

 

[Robosoldier1]

I think I understand what you're trying to say here. That being said, I think it's also in "Damned if we do, Damned if we don't"-territory for Paradox.

If Paradox didn't implement popular ideas/mechanics and instead focused on things no one, or at least a minority, are asking for, I think someone would post the thread titled "I don't mind Paradox focusing of really creative and unheard of additions, but..." and then point out the fault in Paradox ignoring these great ideas from the mod community that would enhance the game for everyone.

Ya I think that is prob true. Ultimately the pacing and rate of additions of content are just killing me. It’s going so sluggish and while people see that has merit it defiantly has its drawbacks.

So In order for me to endure the wait i use mods. When I use mods I get exposed to good additions making for me the “norm” and when I expect newer stuff that for many comes off as new I have already been playing it for months on end. So now all I am left with is the option of not relying on the mod which really means nothing of significance changed in reality. Making my wait kinda unfulfilling. At least in this respect.

 

[Crowarior]

This whole "complaint" is so stupid. I doubt modders are angry or mad because devs are adding things to the game. If anything it would make them excited because they can develop even better mods with proper coding infrastructure.