Devs taking stuff from Mods and adding them to updates?

[Robosoldier1]

Now just to point this out I got no problem Devs taking inspiration from modders nor am I trying to be malicious when I present this topic. Or insinuating that the moderators themselves are even the ones who solely originated some of the ideas (since we have had previous Hoi games) and simply took that step to introduce them into this current iteration. However doesn't it seem weird that various elements at this point have been integrated into the game based around the model the moderators integrated months ago and for some maybe even years? Just to also Add these are not exact rip offs mind you but these are some serious heavily influenced additions that makes me scratch my head because of the very aligned similarities.

• Introduction of No mans land borders (particularly Africa) (couldn't tell ya who did it first but it showed up around a year or 2 ago and lord and behold when the new update came around in that same time frame the area was changed accordingly by Paradox)

• Motorized Vehicles carrying artillery and such (again same case only its now getting placed in this upcoming update)

certain focus tree pathways

• Trosky: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374673631&searchtext=Trotsky (April) (dev Diary October)
• British: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384292518&searchtext=imperial (May) (dev Diary July)

Alot of these for some of you might seem like the obvious "next step" for certain elements and are just overlap. Which in of itself is not a bad thing but it defiantly cheapens them a bit in regards to thinking there "new" when in reality there just old and tested ideas in a different paint scheme.

Ideas I feel that are coming or being refined based off previous Paradox interest with certain mods
Espionage system
Politics system
certain country pathways or takes on how to design their focus tree

 

[C-Breeze]

Everyone draws inspiration from various sources. To be honest, I don't know if there's even such a thing as a truly 'original' idea out there anymore. (If there is, I'd certainly like to hear about it). But this whole realm of intellectual property is a bit of a gray zone. As in, if you 'borrow' an idea from one source, it's plagiarism, but if you 'borrow' from several it's research.

Besides, in the framework of this discussion, the main point seems to be that the incorporation of certain pre-existing ideas is actually making the game better. And in my humble opinion, that's something I suspect most modders are in favor of. ( I know I've talked to a number who've had their mods included in the base game and they're generally tickled pink about it).

 

[billcorr]

Introduction of No mans land borders (particularly Africa)

There was heavy demand for No Mans Land borders.

I am familiar with the customers lobbying Podcat hard for impassable terrain. I remember, because I was arguing against impassable terrain. Podcat, IIRC, was standing firm against such a change.

But in the end, the developers listened to the customers and introduced No Man's Land.

 

[kaguravitro]

mybe they should listen the 4x4 template compensation for force 30 with / reduce breaktrought stack.

 

[coffeelingfine]

Paradox did No Man's Land quite differently from mods though. They didn't make it permanently impassable

 

[Fulmen]

Wish they actually took more stuff from mods, especially multiplayer mods as they often fix many of the glaring balance issues and exploits in vanilla.

They didn't make it permanently impassable

Yes they did?

 

[coffeelingfine]

Yes they did?

I'm pretty sure you can still build infrastructure in Africa to make it passable again.

 

[Fulmen]

I'm pretty sure you can still build infrastructure in Africa to make it passable again.

Nope. You're thinking about HoI3.

 

[coffeelingfine]

My bad then

 

[Hermes]

Now just to point this out I got no problem Devs taking inspiration from moderators nor am I trying to be malicious when I present this topic. Or insinuating that the moderators themselves are even the ones who solely originated some of the ideas (since we have had previous Hoi games) and simply took that step to introduce them into this current iteration. However doesn't it seem weird that various elements at this point have been integrated into the game based around the model the moderators integrated months ago and for some maybe even years? Just to also Add these are not exact rip offs mind you but these are some serious heavily influenced additions that makes me scratch my head because of the very aligned similarities.

• Introduction of No mans land borders (particularly Africa) (couldn't tell ya who did it first but it showed up around a year or 2 ago and lord and behold when the new update came around in that same time frame the area was changed accordingly by Paradox)

• Motorized Vehicles carrying artillery and such (again same case only its now getting placed in this upcoming update)

certain focus tree pathways

• Trosky: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374673631&searchtext=Trotsky (April) (dev Diary October)
• British: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384292518&searchtext=imperial (May) (dev Diary July)

Alot of these for some of you might seem like the obvious "next step" for certain elements and are just overlap. Which in of itself is not a bad thing but it defiantly cheapens them a bit in regards to thinking there "new" when in reality there just old and tested ideas in a different paint scheme.

Ideas I feel that are coming or being refined based off previous Paradox interest with certain mods
Espionage system
Politics system
certain country pathways or takes on how to design their focus tree

Impassable provinces has been in earlier HOI games.

Motorized artillery is hardly an innovation regardless of whether it was in a mod first or in Hoi4, can't remember if the earlier hoi games had them, probably.

There is one mod that I know of that they put into the game with some tweaks is the better peace mod or whatever it's name was and they said so themselves.

Espionage mods and politics mods are of course inspired by the earlier hoi games and other paradox games.

As for focuses they are based on history so yeh well talk about no imagination there
As for alt history i mean there are youtube channels, forums, subreddits a whole genre of books about alt history. Some ideas and variants are super common and yeh I think many modders in turn are inspired by those communities and ideas. Does any of this CHEAPEN the mods? Of course not. Does any of this CHEAPEN the vanilla game? Of course not.

 

[bwhite9]

Many times they do a better job of implementing ideas that started as mods. For example, the impassible terrain the devs implemented is better then why most mods did it. Another example is the implementation of stability. The one paradox made was far superior to all the ones modders made.

The devs have said they have directly used stuff from mods, without edits, but always with permission from the modders and give them credit normally in the dev diary where they talk about it.

 

[Bratyn]

The devs have said they have directly used stuff from mods, without edits, but always with permission from the modders and give them credit normally in the dev diary where they talk about it.

Pretty much this. We are not averse to taking ideas from mods, but if we do so we ask permission and give credit. For instance, I took the name lists for the newly-added tags from the Millennium Dawn mod, with their permission, and gave them credit in the dev diary.

As for Focus Trees touching on similar topics such as Imperial Federation for Britain and Trotsky for Mexico; it's almost as if we're using the same exact source material called 'history' to base our designs on, isn't it...?

 

[Robosoldier1]

Pretty much this. We are not averse to taking ideas from mods, but if we do so we ask permission and give credit. For instance, I took the name lists for the newly-added tags from the Millennium Dawn mod, with their permission, and gave them credit in the dev diary.

As for Focus Trees touching on similar topics such as Imperial Federation for Britain and Trotsky for Mexico; it's almost as if we're using the same exact source material called 'history' to base our designs on, isn't it...?

Ya.... Out of all the "history" you try to incorporate. These two just so happen to be the exact type of premises used in the content. Honestly the conference idea was pushed heavy by the community so you really can't say "you" stumbled upon it and applied it yourselves at this point in time. Since you updated the tree later on with that included. As for trosky. Ya I would argue the whole stretch of the idea of him having any potential rising to power in Mexico is not really historically backed or even really possible. Does it seriously only take someone/something having semi present status to have some influence and allow the flood gates to open? According to the development of these focus trees...yes.. yes it does.

Again It's not even a problem you are repurposing ideas from mods to improve the game. But you can't tell me the stuff provided comes off as cheapened slightly for the fact its really not necessarily coming from YOU organically when its coming from THEM. But you present them as big and fresh premise either brought back or taken from a mod. I know its kinda a rule of thumb for alot of people that you need Mods to play paradox games. But dam I didn't think that would be such a tie in statement.

 

[Achab]

Pdox basically stolen the whole idea of protracted warfare story from certain Homer (not the yellow one).

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

We also have @Vonboe's fantastic 3D models in the Death or Dishonor DLC if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Meglok]

@Robosoldier1 I have to ask, what is the purpose of this thread?

As @Bratyn said, the devs have ALWAYS asked permission first and acknowledged when they have used modder's work. Are you saying they shouldn't use someone else's good idea if it works in their larger scheme of improvements? My AAIA campaign would have been for naught.

 

[Captured Joe]

I'd love if Paradox took ideas from my little modding projects

 

[BjornB]

I would also like to highlight the Paradox Terms of use

4. By publishing a mod based on a Paradox game, you hereby grant to Paradox and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and perpetual right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, publicly display and publicly perform your mod. Explicitly, this license shall include the right to make the mod publicly available through other channels of distribution, and the right to adapt a mod to be compatible with other platforms. This license shall survive termination of the EULA.

We still strive towards giving credit etc.

 

[Bratyn]

Honestly the conference idea was pushed heavy by the community so you really can't say "you" stumbled upon it and applied it yourselves at this point in time.

It was. I never claimed credit for the overarching idea, merely for the implementation.

Again It's not even a problem you are repurposing ideas from mods to improve the game. But you can't tell me the stuff provided comes off as cheapened slightly for the fact its really not necessarily coming from YOU organically when its coming from THEM.

I thought it organically came from the men and women who lived through the actual events in and around World War II in the 1930s and '40s?

That both the Dev Team and the modders come with similar cool ideas when looking at the exact same historical events does not surprise me at all. Both modders and the team tend to look at cool 'what ifs' that can be somewhat based on historical 'hooks', and so even their alternate history would presumably be similar at least in outline. However, I would be very surprised if there'd be a major similarity in the details of implementation.

Ideas I feel that are coming or being refined based off previous Paradox interest with certain mods
Espionage system
Politics system
certain country pathways or takes on how to design their focus tree

Things you 'feel' are coming? Or things you read in this dev diary of 1,5 years ago, where we clearly outlined what aspects of the game we wished to improve when we got around to it?

 

[Oracel]

What is this? Didn't know we were having a childish fight over who had which idea first

I welcome every positive change or addition Paradox implements into the game. I really do not care too much who came up with a idea first. Overall we all just want the best experience possible, don't we?