DEVS: Suggestion to help with railspam (Modders may be able to help too)

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Imgran

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Studying the problem of rail gridlock the single biggest bugaboo seems to be intercity passenger rail behavior. The system can handle intracity commuter rail if the routes are managed intelligently, and it can handle inbound and outbound freight rail but add inbound and outbound passenger rail to the mix and have it flow separate trains to each and every passenger station you create and hook up to the network and all hell breaks loose every single time. That's where we are right now.

Right now there's no way to prevent that from happening short of just not hooking everything up, which is a hassle and isn't intuitive for new city builders. Yes you can manage the train AI in game to a point but I feel like I shouldn't have to build to manage derpy AI behavior since that breaks immersion, when the AI behavior is the real problem and should be addressed.

One thing that would solve the problem without amazing mental traffic gymnastics is if you could designate one, and only one, passenger train station as your Central Station to handle all rail connections from and to the outside of town. Passengers that wanted to head out of town would filter through the local commuter trains to the central station, and then embark for parts unknown. Tourists that wanted to come to town from parts unknown would disembark at the central station and only there and take commuter rail from there into your city. Having only one, or only a small handful, of big intercity connections is how most towns actually do handle intercity rail traffic after all

Maybe even just make that a separate kind of rail station that handles ALL external passenger rail and strip that functionality from standard passenger stations. Of course we'd have to make sure it could be a stop on standard commuter lines as well for easy connection to the light rail lines, but with that behavior limited to one chosen station, the rest of the rail traffic would hang up a whole HECK of a lot less. This would prevent external passenger rail from filtering into clogged intercity lines and solve 99% of the problem.

Question for devs/modders: How hard would it be, do you think, to strip long distance rail arrival and departure from the standard Train Station and create a new building or, alternatively, create a new building that only worked as a rail transit destination and had no inbound and outbound behavior and use that for intracity commuter trains and use the Rail Station as the grand central terminal? Actually I prefer the second solution as simpler/easier for the community to handle on its own (or you'd at least think so).

If there's a mod out there already that (accidentally or deliberately) already does this, fantastic, I'd really like to know about it and I'll be happy to promote it when people come to the forum with the trainspam problem.
 
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Art1985

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We need signal Lights like in openTTD.
 

neldot

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I had this problem early, but it seems I solved it in my city. It's a player planning problem too, as for most of the traffic problems with roads.

I discovered that you can deal with AI trains spam by creating simple, short bypass tracks for every station in your network. The AI train will automatically choose the bypass tracks instead of going trough the station (unless that station is its destination).
It makes sense, after all, even in RL you can't have a single rail line dealing with commuters, freight and long-range at the same time and not being congested.
 

Imgran

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A decent modder could probably create a Light Rail Station or Commuter Platform that worked only as a transit point for commuter rail routes and did not include other behaviors. If I had that tool though I could use the modded station for intracity light rail and the vanilla passenger station BECOMES the Central Station complete with inbound and outbound behavior and an easy connection to the (modded) local stations through transit routes, that's all I need to have something I can use to allow myself access to commuter light rail without clogging my system all to hell.

If a modder is feeling particularly helpful or curious this is one way that the mod community can help solve the problem. Alternatively the Devs could just fix the AI, but I suspect that maybe a lot more difficult and time consuming than finding a way to create a rail station asset with transit route functionality but the other rail station behaviors excluded.
 

Imgran

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I had this problem early, but it seems I solved it in my city. It's a player planning problem too, as for most of the traffic problems with roads.

I discovered that you can deal with AI trains spam by creating simple, short bypass tracks for every station in your network. The AI train will automatically choose the bypass tracks instead of going trough the station (unless that station is its destination).
It makes sense, after all, even in RL you can't have a single rail line dealing with commuters, freight and long-range at the same time and not being congested.

You can when you're only a city of some umpteen thousand. The really really big cities might need decicated lines, but a city of 50,000 should be handling things a great deal more simply.

I have no problem managing for reasonably normal AI behavior and if I create a system that's congested to reasons within my control oh well, that's on me. That's not what's happening here. The fact that it's a passenger free for all to all passenger stations and trains will spawn from out of town and jam my system all to hell trying to get to each and every one of my passenger stations is inappropriate AI behavior, it's beyond my control or ability to manipulate, and rail lines already take so much space in my city that the idea of adding more is just unpalatable. I've already got some absolutely Cthuloid rail connections here and there as I tried to deal with this problem with the tools the devs gave us. All I'm doing here is asking for one more that would make a huge impact.
 

Imgran

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Stating an end effect without giving a means to get that effect isn't helpful either to devs or to potential modders.

What's really clogging the rails right now is the fact that every time you build a passenger train station, no matter where it is. new trains are spawned from outside the city to service each and every one of them. That might just be tolerable if all you're doing with your rail is just servicing the tourists, but if you're using it for commuter transit and freight as well it gets sticky very fast. It's specifically the issue that trains spawn that target all of your passenger terminals at the same time with no regard for traffic load that overloads your rail grid, especially if it's extensive, and so it's that behavior that is the ideal target for a fix.

What I'm proposing (either version of it) would actually have the effect you're talking about by the way. One central station to deal with inbound and outbound traffic and a bunch of terminal platforms to handle internal transit only would accomplish that effect when the real issue is passenger train spam.

What I don't think should be necessary is elaborate mental gymnastics just to prevent railspam from clogging up a relatively modest commuter rail system or forcing you to cut it off from your other rail lines entirely which frequently requires two separate, parallel lines to service both local commerce and local passengers. Rail already takes up quite a bit of surface space as it is, that workaround more than doubles said space..
 
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Sixalot

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Today i wanted to know why trains pilled up on one of the outbound line , so i added the mod 81 tiles and bought the tiles to get to the outer part of the map , what i found :

there is an incomming train that gets stuck at the edge of the map , so i deleted a few trains waiting to go outside , then i deleted the incomming one , it got replaced with a new one that went back outside but get stuck because the normal outbound trains occupy the same node ,
then i went a bit further and installed Moveit mod , went back to same location and dragged the outside part of the rail line 'inside' the map and then things got funny .. i again deleted a few trains and what did i see , a inbound train , a truck , a yellow car , police car and it kept on going.

Conclusion : somehow the game sets direction of travel to the wrong side when spawning new incoming trains.
train spawn point should not spawn auto mobiles.

i think when this is fixed a lot of train troubles should be gone from the game.

greets Sixer..
 

AndrewT

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Please don't reopen old thread like this; make a new one instead. The game has changed radically in the 5 years since. Thanks.
 
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