Devs... A wish from a new player.

[unmerged(253431)]

So, I bought Sword of the Stars II about a week or so after it was released. Blind buy. Did absolutely no research before I bought it. I had absolutely no experience with the first Sword of the Stars. After a week or so of trying desperately to figure SotS2 out, I decided to buy the Complete pack of the first one. And I love it. It's great in so many ways. And every time I load SotS2, I start a new game simply in the hopes that you have implemented the first one's movement system. It was so simple. Click fleet. Click move button. Move fleet. Is there ANY way you could add an option to the second one to use the old move system? PLEASE?


P.S. keep plugging away guys. You've got the framework for a great game here...

 

[unmerged(192255)]

Hi - the two different systems have two very different implications on how the game plays, so it's not as simple as providing a system of use old one/use new one.
Out of all the things we altered from the first game, this is the one thing we knew would be the biggest change to people used to the old game. That's just how it goes sometimes - you play a lot of one shooter game and then move to another that has difference in how you play, and you lose all that practiced reaction and muscle memory. But we made the change for very specific reasons. We may tweak it, as we work on the game, but for the moment, no old system I'm afraid. I'm glad you're digging the old game though!

 

[Hellbender38]

Who doesn't love filling out invoices!?

 

[Tairneanach]

So, I bought Sword of the Stars II about a week or so after it was released. Blind buy. Did absolutely no research before I bought it. I had absolutely no experience with the first Sword of the Stars. After a week or so of trying desperately to figure SotS2 out, I decided to buy the Complete pack of the first one. And I love it. It's great in so many ways. And every time I load SotS2, I start a new game simply in the hopes that you have implemented the first one's movement system. It was so simple. Click fleet. Click move button. Move fleet. Is there ANY way you could add an option to the second one to use the old move system? PLEASE?


P.S. keep plugging away guys. You've got the framework for a great game here...

Once you get used to it, the new system is really simple. Just examine your though process for a second. When you decide to deploy a fleet, you usually don't think "I want this fleet to do something, so let's look for something it can do." Instead, you think: "I need this system surveyed/colonised/attacked/whatever, where's a fleet that can do that?" And that's what this movement system does: You click on the planet you need something done, then select the fleet that you want to use. The only problem I have with this system is that it opens a new window instead of just opening the necessary menus, but that's a minor gripe.

 

[functional]

The most beef I have with new system is that I can't send Tarkasian scout fleets the same was I could in the first one.

In first one, I could just make aprox. four supply ships, send them all on their routes so that they could explore really far and then at some point I would decide if I would just call it a day and make them come back or explore further just incase there is some 7-9 size planets to keep my eye on before it's too late.

Since here they always have to come back per mission, it's another story.


Though, I did hear that you can chain them after some research or something? Like, I could give 3 survey missions to a fleet, so they won't have to come back?


And there is one good thing about this. No forgotten space ships lying around anywhere outside your planets.

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

The best way for surveing seams to be CnC spam without any additional ship.

 

[unmerged(178195)]

The new system is bulky, Clikc fleet and move it was FAR more easy. Now you never know where your fleet is. Just imagine a big big Imperium with dozens or hundreds of fleets... By Relocations you will NEVER have a good view on things...

 

[unmerged(201662)]

Umm...you do know there is a fleet screen now right? Also fleets have icons on the starmap as well. Though I suggest using the fleet screen, it's very helpful keeping track of where your ships and fleets are.

 

[unmerged(178195)]

I just said, its far more easy the old way...

 

[unmerged(253431)]

So, I bought Sword of the Stars II about a week or so after it was released. Blind buy. Did absolutely no research before I bought it. I had absolutely no experience with the first Sword of the Stars. After a week or so of trying desperately to figure SotS2 out, I decided to buy the Complete pack of the first one. And I love it. It's great in so many ways. And every time I load SotS2, I start a new game simply in the hopes that you have implemented the first one's movement system. It was so simple. Click fleet. Click move button. Move fleet. Is there ANY way you could add an option to the second one to use the old move system? PLEASE?



P.S. keep plugging away guys. You've got the framework for a great game here...

Thanks for getting back to me castewar. I knew you had your reasons, and had played enough of SotSII to see the differences there. I'll still keep my eye out for and 'old move system' option in the hopes it will happen. -

 

[unmerged(188007)]

I have posted my criticism of the new system as well. This and Invoices are a huge step backwards. Some disagree with me, some are just fanboys, others are more open minded then me perhaps.

But Kerb are set on it and will not change their mind at all, for better or worse (depending on your stance). I feel like the benefits of this system could easily be incorporated into a more sane system... or that having both systems at once would be viable (For example, I select a fleet, and click a star just as in the old system. If more then one order is available, usually there is not, then a small context could pop up- NOT a whole menu screen...). Then fine, ALSO give us the ability to click a star and pull up the whole menu as it is now. I can see in some situations that would be useful, but to force it be so, is grating and cumbersome to try and manage multiple fleets.

Maybe when the game is working I will change my mind, perhaps the bad taste from the other issues clouds my judgment. But if you were alive at the time, it really really feels to me, like we are walking from "Command and Conquer" to "Dune 2". In C&C you could click a unit and click a target. In Dune 2, its predecessor, you had to fiddle with a little menu with its available order types...

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

..., it really really feels to me, like we are walking from "Command and Conquer" to "Dune 2". In C&C you could click a unit and click a target. In Dune 2, its predecessor, you had to fiddle with a little menu with its available order types...

If I remember correctly, in Dune 2 you just click a unit and then click on an enemy to attack. No little menu.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

The fleet system are there to do two things if I remember correctly from the Kerberos staff. Additional strategical choices and less micromanagement during the middle and late game. Also, remember that not all feature in regard to the mission system is there yet. I would also like to be able to give a mission directly to a fleet and not always have to click on the destination. I mean, the solution for this should be relatively simple. Select the fleet and then select a mission as normal, the selected fleet is preselected in the mission window, you could then change to another fleet if you like, but it would sometimes speed things up.

I also think that using a mission oriented system for ship movement was a conscious decision for getting a feel of real naval warfare. In real life ships don't sail will nilly, neither do divisions of troops etc.. It sure is not entirely realitic, but that is probably not their intentions either, it all come down to play balance.

It is also (in my opinion) pointless with arguments such as... i was able to do in Prime... or now it takes forever to survey star-systems... etc.. These are conscious changes and it is meant to take much longer and be more complicated and cost more to expand than it ever was in Prime. SotS 1 and 2 are vastly different games in terms of game mechanic. If it is slower to expand it's not like the AI or opponents can do it any faster, they adhere to the same rules and find the same obstacles as you do, it is just a change in mechanics. You simply need to change your approach to the game, thats all. If you don't like the changes, then there are always SotS Prime, the old game do not go away.

 

[Coldeathfin]

Hi - the two different systems have two very different implications on how the game plays, so it's not as simple as providing a system of use old one/use new one.
Out of all the things we altered from the first game, this is the one thing we knew would be the biggest change to people used to the old game. That's just how it goes sometimes - you play a lot of one shooter game and then move to another that has difference in how you play, and you lose all that practiced reaction and muscle memory. But we made the change for very specific reasons. We may tweak it, as we work on the game, but for the moment, no old system I'm afraid. I'm glad you're digging the old game though!

Question
Why cant we have both. The old way so that its simple at the start of the game and then use the new mission menu when we are getting over whelemd

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

I have seen a pretty good example somewhere on this forum where someone showed that you do not need a single click more with the new system compared to the old one. You are infact need less clicks! I am definatly not a fanboy though i like the old system because it is the system i am most used to it in every game. But the new system is sound.

 

[unmerged(400937)]

this has come up in literally every discussion of this issue and yet nobody reposts it when they're saying "i have posted my feelings elsewhere".

The ability to move a fleet by clicking on the fleet and giving an order is coming.

as for scouting; it's supposed to be more complex, avoiding the disposable, don't-care fleets of SotS 1. however, single CnC spam is definitely not the best way to scout; you save two or three turns building extra ships, but you LOSE dozens of turns every time you send a survey mission to a large system, since number of ships is directly related to survey time.

i use one cnc, one supply and five armours - surveying a nine world system takes me only a few turns.

 

[HighLigerBimBam]

You need some CnC at the beginning anyway, so there is nothing wrong building some and sending them for a mission.