Developping provinces beyond ''force institutions'' ?

[BaronNoir]

I read often that good players don't do it, that you have always a better use for DIPLO ADMIN MIL than provinces.. but when you are at +100% and have no ideas available ?

(I try, when I have universities, to build all ''core'' provinces to 20)

 

[gigau]

Depends on your game style... i like to roleplay, so i try to develop my provinces, especially when i try to play a smaller nation and need to grow tall instead of expanding.

 

[Plantagent]

Extra diplo, no vassals to annex? Build up gold mines, and culture convert.

Good players do both those things plenty. Although culture conversions are really low priority.

 

[Manic Eskimo]

It depends what you are trying to do. Currently there is more money in the game which means more points. So I'd imagine this will be more common. I do it sometimes when I'm just under the limit of dev that estates expect. Rather than giving them another province.

 

[Horn and Ivory]

It's not about having a better use for mana but about having a better use for gold. As a general rule, if you spent money on an advisor and used those points to develop, that's less efficient than hiring a worse advisor, having less points, and instead using that gold to build buildings.

The obvious exception is gold. Gold gold gold. In some circumstances developing other valuable trade goods as well can be an ok move, especially when you're a small nation without much income. There are sometimes other special circumstances where you want an excess of monarch points banked for some extraneous reason and develop a couple of times to keep under the cap, or whatever. But these aside I'm broadly in the try-not-to-develop camp.

 

[addvaluejack]

I sometimes use development to secure my share of trade power in trade nodes and increase supply limit in a province.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Unless I'm in Europe I almost always develop the first two institutions when it's convenient. It's not as efficient as conquest, but it's safer and causes less unrest. You get more "bang for your buck" on buildings. It's usually a decent thing to do unless you are blobbing super hard.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's actually not trivial to expand at a rate fast enough to consistently not overflow once you have +5 advisers and ideas filled out, but good players generally manage it. The best are still point-starved .

 

[Orkonkel]

Yeah, TMIT is correct. My current Ottoman WC run had me almost going over cap on paper mana a few times, although Ottoman government form with lvl 5 advisor and 50+ power projection also gives far more points than you were getting when the game was first released. The addition of the higher administrative efficiency really means that AE and speed of conquest is more of an issue than monarch points (esp since you can still vassal feed in case you happen to bite off more than you can chew at any single point).

 

[makaramus]

its good for persia with economic ideas with their goverment you can devolp provinces around your capital for what? 10 points even at very high numbers?

Hell... lets not even speak about milan shall we That country is like "monarch points? I was using it as toilet paper is it really that valueable?" their ideas are all about saving monarch points and devolping land

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

its good for persia with economic ideas with their goverment you can devolp provinces around your capital for what? 10 points even at very high numbers?

Hell... lets not even speak about milan shall we That country is like "monarch points? I was using it as toilet paper is it really that valueable?" their ideas are all about saving monarch points and devolping land

Brings a new meaning to "Paper Mana" <_<

 

[Northernwwater]

Early game dev can be a nice way to tweak out some extra force limits. That and estates.

 

[Orkonkel]

I would also def. use spare points to dev when you own provinces like Dalaskogen or Golkonda.

 

[deathbypie]

I would also def. use spare points to dev when you own provinces like Dalaskogen or Golkonda.

Because of the goods produced modifiers? Developing those provinces will be exactly as effective as any other with the same trade good, as 1 diplo development adds 0.2 goods produced, regardless of how many are already produced.

 

[Badesumofu]

The best players generally won't be close to overflowing on ADM or DIP and so don't have points to spend on developing. For most players spending all those points on constant coring and integrating is not going to be happening.

For me, in the process of a WC I will spend a significant amount on developing my core lands in the first couple of ages. In particular now with how abundant monarch points have become and development has gotten cheaper thanks to the edict plus prosperity. Developing is pretty decent value at this point. Generally not as good value as coring or integrating, but you simply won't be doing that enough to spend all your points unless you are a maniac.

 

[ywxiao]

Developing is fun, I usually make my core provinces 25-30 dev. Developed my capital to 100+ in mp and laughed at everyone's land showing bright red in dev map mode was a moment of blissfulness.

 

[TenshiN]

There was that MP game where i sat in my awesome Korea after taking those 2 provinces that Korea has unique missions for +Girin, not really doing external expanding after that. People laughed at me, carving wide steppe empires, getting new neighbours and new enemies, while noone dared to attack my border forts with +3 attrition bonus, with a decent amount of combat-ready troops standing near my borders... They laughed, they were sure that i am not an issue. Even after i became a Merchant Republic and started dominating the Beijing node. Yet noone was pleased to discover that i am actually strong, with 400k-strong army and about 700-ship fleet in 1700. They died in great quantities in my mountain border forts with that extra Korean punch. I stayed on the defensive and threw them back time after time, again and again. Then i went on a counter-offensive. Result - i blitzed 2 of my enemies, peacing out for the whole of Manchuria, from which i released Yeren, fed it all the conquered provinces and made it my march. Needless to say, when the game finished at 1820, that march also was over 1k dev!
I know this is far from being optimal and that i did not win, only being a rank-8 great power in the end... But what a blast this game was! So definitely yes, developing may be fun for a change and can be surprisingly effective if you stack related bonuses.

 

[Badesumofu]

You can really stack those discounts to a point where it becomes really competitive with coring. Edict, Prosperity, Economic, happy merchant estate, Farmlands is a 60% discount, or 20 MP per development before your province reaches 10. Still twice as much as coring, but then keep in mind that coring costs ADM where developing uses a mix of all three. And there's the fact you don't have to fight a war for it, you can put it into right culture, right religion provinces that already have buildings to multiply the value.

On average coring is still better. But especially if you simply don't want to be at war all the time developing can be decent value. It can certainly be a substantial part of a strategy that aims at WC. I'd be very unlikely to do it after about 1650, but during those first two ages it is a decent to good use of MP if done correctly.

 

[Northernwwater]

Developing is fun, I usually make my core provinces 25-30 dev. Developed my capital to 100+ in mp and laughed at everyone's land showing bright red in dev map mode was a moment of blissfulness.

The coring cost on that capital would have bee a shock to your enemies too.

 

[Northernwwater]

There was that MP game where i sat in my awesome Korea after taking those 2 provinces that Korea has unique missions for +Girin, not really doing external expanding after that. People laughed at me, carving wide steppe empires, getting new neighbours and new enemies, while noone dared to attack my border forts with +3 attrition bonus, with a decent amount of combat-ready troops standing near my borders... They laughed, they were sure that i am not an issue. Even after i became a Merchant Republic and started dominating the Beijing node. Yet noone was pleased to discover that i am actually strong, with 400k-strong army and about 700-ship fleet in 1700. They died in great quantities in my mountain border forts with that extra Korean punch. I stayed on the defensive and threw them back time after time, again and again. Then i went on a counter-offensive. Result - i blitzed 2 of my enemies, peacing out for the whole of Manchuria, from which i released Yeren, fed it all the conquered provinces and made it my march. Needless to say, when the game finished at 1820, that march also was over 1k dev!
I know this is far from being optimal and that i did not win, only being a rank-8 great power in the end... But what a blast this game was! So definitely yes, developing may be fun for a change and can be surprisingly effective if you stack related bonuses.

Sounds like a great game!