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I'm greatly encouraged from what I have read.
However, can somebody explain to me the advantage of seeing convoy routes on the map? How exactly will it provide functionality for the game.
Also, will the enemy be able to see such convoy routes?
(Sorry if these questions have been asked already; I don't have the time to read every post at the moment.)
However, can somebody explain to me the advantage of seeing convoy routes on the map? How exactly will it provide functionality for the game.
Also, will the enemy be able to see such convoy routes?
(Sorry if these questions have been asked already; I don't have the time to read every post at the moment.)
Think - if enemy sees ure routes it knows where to strike. It cant be known.
German subs where hunting only on propable routes. If they new how convoys go they would not move just sit there and w8 for the right moment to fire torpedos. It would be to simple even with escort.
German subs where hunting only on propable routes. If they new how convoys go they would not move just sit there and w8 for the right moment to fire torpedos. It would be to simple even with escort.
To be fair, I would LOVE to see them being identified and becoming visible for the enemy depending on his intel and naval presence.
In HoI2 intel actions had too much of a "black ops" feeling, while lacked in information gathering and analisys aspect. Sure, it was there (identification of R&D and production priorities, strategical and operational land forces composition), but naval intel was not really present.
My bad. they built the Burma Railway, also known as the Death Railway, the Thailand-Burma Railway and similar names, is a 415 km (258 mile) railway between Bangkok, Thailand and Rangoon, Burma and I will take your word they built 7000km of new track in the USSR over the 1939 to 1945 period.
Still it will not be ingame and will only be represented by infrastructure improvements on a province by province basis.
Still it will not be ingame and will only be represented by infrastructure improvements on a province by province basis.
Thats why i said most probable - for burma the ifra should say the player or ai where the supplies go so should be easy to attack. Differet thing is with sea. Of course the intel should have some effect on that. like for ex: we will be able to know some routs form time to time and then they dissapear again - that would be nice.
I think your general point was mostly correct - railways were mostly rebuilt or maintained during the war and major infrastructure improvements were rare (Burma railway, trans-alaska highway and the soviet lines to the urals factories / oil fields are exceptions that prove the rule)
I would love to see railroads modelled in some way and channelling supply lines. Infrastructure can approach this but it's perfectly possible to have a modern railway through a wilderness (Burma railroad, trans-siberian railroad) and if the infra is increased for this then the impact on ground troops ability to move through the hostile region is overstated.
yeah
I must agree with that. Split the infra into: 1 infra, 2 rail system (or transport system)
1 would have impact on all aspects
2 would on supply and redeployement/reinforcement only
I must agree with that. Split the infra into: 1 infra, 2 rail system (or transport system)
1 would have impact on all aspects
2 would on supply and redeployement/reinforcement only
New unit - supply corps?
Hm, interesting...
I do see a need for a new brigade, "the supply corps", which for supply purposes increase the infrastructure (+10 - 20 % (?) in the area around where it is placed). Maybe you could place a string of these units and get a better supply situation.
This brigade can only be placed together with garrison and HQ.
What do you think?
regards,
Hm, interesting...
I do see a need for a new brigade, "the supply corps", which for supply purposes increase the infrastructure (+10 - 20 % (?) in the area around where it is placed). Maybe you could place a string of these units and get a better supply situation.
This brigade can only be placed together with garrison and HQ.
What do you think?
regards,
Maybe higher command unit - with HQ (Corps/Army etc) should give such benefits?
nice idea
but it dont need new unit just a proper work of existing command centers
nice idea
but it dont need new unit just a proper work of existing command centers
But it never was this simple.
As far as I know, in the war there were common 'sea lanes' which the British and Allies used for shipping supplies across the Atlantic Ocean.
Now, if I were to hazard a guess these supply routes that will be included in HoI3 will most likely be the FIXED routes for convoys/supply shipping, whereas during the war, convoys could go anywhere on the seas, depending on reports of submarines.
Intelligence has to play an important part too. The enemy shouldn't know convoy routes unless it has good intelligence and code-breaking ability (through research I suppose).
In HoI3 I would hope that convoys will not be strictly confined to these supply routes - the sea provinces determine the route of the supply routes, and becuase the supply route is a very very small line in a very very big sea province the game should account for this fact. I also hope chance will remain a big factor in determining whether or not a submarine will actually run into a convoy, and hopefully weather (since I'm not sure this has ever been a factor in HoI2) will become a factor too, and quite an important one in determining submarine success.
All in all, it would be cool if in HoI3, actual convoys were reported @ sea, so that your submarines could have a better chance of intercepting such convoys, should they already be in the relative area.
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I haven't red the entire 11 pages but I have some questions:
Sieges?
How can Leningrad maintain limited supply for 3 years over a frozen lake? Will there be buildable supply dumps that you can place?
Germany had cauldrons on the Eastern front that survived for months. Granted they had air supply but I feel that pocketed units in HOI2 became out of organisation a little bit too quick, especially when in prepared positions that were prepared to be encircled. The garrison of Brest-Litovsk in 1941 held out for what? A month? They would have lasted days in HOI2.
Please make it so that Sieges are a valid option for the defender this time.
Supply ports?
In HOI2 the automated engine often selected a very inconvenient supply port that you know were going to be overrun by the enemy very soon and you had no possibility to move it. Will this be possible to asign this time?
Infrastructure as the sole denominator of supply capacity even overseas? What about trade fleets, merchants shipping at sea? The Normandy Landing and the AFrican Campaign shows that not only tha amount of trains in France, Italy and Libya decided how much supply the fighting troops recived there. The amount of available shipping did. I suppose convoys will be the same as in HOI2, am acceptable solution I suppose except I hope I don't have to see 50 US divisions racing into Germany days after landing in Europe this time.
"Size of port = how much supplies can you recieve in a day" sounds very nice! Incentive to build/defend and conquer major ports is finally there! Excellent!
Sieges?
How can Leningrad maintain limited supply for 3 years over a frozen lake? Will there be buildable supply dumps that you can place?
Germany had cauldrons on the Eastern front that survived for months. Granted they had air supply but I feel that pocketed units in HOI2 became out of organisation a little bit too quick, especially when in prepared positions that were prepared to be encircled. The garrison of Brest-Litovsk in 1941 held out for what? A month? They would have lasted days in HOI2.
Please make it so that Sieges are a valid option for the defender this time.
Supply ports?
In HOI2 the automated engine often selected a very inconvenient supply port that you know were going to be overrun by the enemy very soon and you had no possibility to move it. Will this be possible to asign this time?
Infrastructure as the sole denominator of supply capacity even overseas? What about trade fleets, merchants shipping at sea? The Normandy Landing and the AFrican Campaign shows that not only tha amount of trains in France, Italy and Libya decided how much supply the fighting troops recived there. The amount of available shipping did. I suppose convoys will be the same as in HOI2, am acceptable solution I suppose except I hope I don't have to see 50 US divisions racing into Germany days after landing in Europe this time.
"Size of port = how much supplies can you recieve in a day" sounds very nice! Incentive to build/defend and conquer major ports is finally there! Excellent!
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To prepare for local offensives? Yes, that would be sweet. OVerseas even more so.
The provinces on either side of Lake Ladoga should have an adjacency rule, so that it is possible to cross over it (like a wide river). IIRC in HOI2 it was an impassable "province", so no-one could attack/move/supply through it.
You can retreat some Divs into a province, then set them on the equivalent of "offensive supply" to pull in as much supplies as possible before they are surrounded. This should produce a reasonable stockpile, especially as there are already supply lines running through the province when they get there. Retreating units should be falling back on their existing supply lines, not trying to extend/create new supply lines.
Johan has mentioned that Divs carry a certain amount of supply with them. IRL you would have an arrangement where there might be 40-50 days of supply available to each Div in a Theatre. This would be arranged with FE 10 days in the Combat Zone and 30-40 days in the Communications Zone. Units operating in the Combat Zone are the frontline Divs/Bde's and their Corps HQs. The 10 days in the Combat Zone would be split FE with 3 days supply held in the Divs, and 7 days in the Corps.
If Corps HQ's have a role in the new logistics system, then (assuming it is not a single Div that gets surrounded) you would expect there to be at least 10 days of supplies available in any surrounded pocket consisting of combat units, plus any additional supplies they could pull in with them before being surrounded. If Paradox simplify the system by having supplies only carried by the Divs, and no extra supplies by Corps HQ, then the Divs should be allowed 10 days worth.
The further they retreat before being surrounded, and the wider the level of encirclement, the more supplies should be trapped. If you have a strategic encirclement that pockets a whole Army/Army Group, then the trapped area might include a supply depot. If it includes a port then you are going to have a long long siege, as some new supplies might continue to get through. Sevastopol and Courland spring to mind.
Perhaps HQ's serve as "routers" for supply pulling by units under their command?
For example, that way the issue with supply line adjustment in the Far East would not arise - the Far Eastern Front HQ would pull all the supply towards its own province, and then it would fan out over much shorter distances to subordinate units and HQs.
For example, that way the issue with supply line adjustment in the Far East would not arise - the Far Eastern Front HQ would pull all the supply towards its own province, and then it would fan out over much shorter distances to subordinate units and HQs.
HQs as Logistic Enablers sounds quite good. It actually reminds me of The Operational Art of War series.
EDIT : The game also featured divisional-level scenarios (even though the rules war Battalion lvl),hence why a parallel with HOI can be drawn.
EDIT : The game also featured divisional-level scenarios (even though the rules war Battalion lvl),hence why a parallel with HOI can be drawn.
If understand the system correctly, each province (along a supply route - i.e. the "green ones" in the latest screenshot) will have it's own stockpile, so yes the larger the area that is encircled, the more supplies would be available within the pocket.
However two things come to mind:
a) A pocket that is wider rather than deeper (relative to the front line) would have less supplies within it - because the supply lines emanate from the capital, and presuming that the capital is usually behind rather than to the left or right of the front line. So if you encircled 2 divisions in a pocket 4 province wide (i.e. including 2 province that are not in supply) they would not last as they would had you encircled them in a pocket 4 deep (i.e. including the provinces behind them relative to the supply line - all 4 are in supply). I'm not suggesting this is a problem, just something to figure into everyone's equations when developing plans.
b) Trapping more divisions in the same number of provinces would lead to those divisions crumbling faster - i.e. 4 divisions in 4 supplied provinces using up supplies 2x as fast as 2 divisions in 4 supplied provinces. It seems obvious, but we will have to plan accordingly; do you surround less divisions (which require less divisions to keep them surrounded) for a longer period of time or surround more divisions (requiring more divisions to keep surrounded, and being more capable of breaking out) for a shorter period of time.
Just some stuff to think about.
Hopefully they show a reasonably zoomed map screenshot of the Soviet (western) border region sometime soon, so I/we can begin planning/drooling over that most grand of campaigns.
I'm hoping for this as well - the units we've seen so far in screenshots look like individual divisions (I may be wrong) but I hope for corps or larger the supply route goes to the HQ, and then fans out from there to the divisions. It would make each HQ a tempting target for a rapid focused attack, as they frequently were/are in real life, as it would (at least temporarily) disrupt the logistical situation of its subordinate units. It would also make protecting your HQs a top priority. Finding and heavily bombing an enemy HQ could also disrupt the logistics (and by association the plans/actions) of a large number of units.
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I think you misunderstood, battlecry. I think every *individual* province has a stockpile. The green provinces are the ones where the supply is being actively pushed.
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