Another get update. I can hardly wait for the game to be released. But, I will have to buy a new PC first and replace my 3 year old one.
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sorry if this has been covered already.
Will Leaders lose skill, (and any accrued experience) like in HOI2 when they are promoted? I sure hope not. I never saw the reason why a leader would become worse as he is promoted, and since the command structure will already disperse his traits, I hope that skill is maintained
Will Leaders lose skill, (and any accrued experience) like in HOI2 when they are promoted? I sure hope not. I never saw the reason why a leader would become worse as he is promoted, and since the command structure will already disperse his traits, I hope that skill is maintained
Hmm. I missed the afternoon rush in which developers actually answer questions.
Still. I'm left to wonder; We'll need a lot more HQ units now, and they need to be close. For major powers, especially those centered around the axis of Europe (hey, what a coincidence in the naming) that shouldn't be a problem. But for small nations that can barely scrape together 10 divisions this will be a problem; whereas they should probably be profiting of way closer central leadership.
Say Holland could realistically field like 5 divisions? What would be the reason for 5 german divisions getting bonusses over the 5 dutch ones because they're lower in the chain of command? I realise the difference is slim but still.. A commander can wear several hats. And it's effectiveness should rely on the amount of divisions below him/her and not the amount of stars on the shoulder.
Still. I'm left to wonder; We'll need a lot more HQ units now, and they need to be close. For major powers, especially those centered around the axis of Europe (hey, what a coincidence in the naming) that shouldn't be a problem. But for small nations that can barely scrape together 10 divisions this will be a problem; whereas they should probably be profiting of way closer central leadership.
Say Holland could realistically field like 5 divisions? What would be the reason for 5 german divisions getting bonusses over the 5 dutch ones because they're lower in the chain of command? I realise the difference is slim but still.. A commander can wear several hats. And it's effectiveness should rely on the amount of divisions below him/her and not the amount of stars on the shoulder.
Didn't see it asked (I might have missed it...) will the 'random' leaders have the ability to increase in rank as well? I know it is important to hamstring the smaller countries a little, but for the sake of gameplay is where my question comes from.
I just hope the auto assign is much smarter. I always had it off due to the best major generals getting assigned to garrison units and such. Becomes a bigger pain in the ass fixing the crappy auto assignment than just doing it all from scratch.
The 5 German divisions are getting the bonuses because Germany can afford a much more sophisticated "back-end" for its armed forces, which is exactly as it should.
Looking through Wiki, though, the Dutch managed to raise some 9 divisions, plus a couple independent brigades, and were handicapped in part because of extremely low defense budgets. Sounds like they couldn't afford the back-end in real life too.
This may be the best DD so far!
I'm curious too about commanders loosing or not a skill point on promotion.
I'm curious too about commanders loosing or not a skill point on promotion.
I'm amazed every time I read a new DD. This will be awesome.
Only thing I could think of now that would make the game better would be if planes had climb speed, angle of attack etc and ships simillar system. The Air Attack and Air Defense is not so realistic since on old biplane would never even be able to shoot at a more modern plane and most strategic bombers would be out of reach from interceptors (instead of just using the air defense stat, as you know the best defense is to not get shot at). IIRC the Germans had to use rocket interceptors to reach the altitude of the bombers. But I realize that is too much detail and you need to leave something for HoI4 ^^
Only thing I could think of now that would make the game better would be if planes had climb speed, angle of attack etc and ships simillar system. The Air Attack and Air Defense is not so realistic since on old biplane would never even be able to shoot at a more modern plane and most strategic bombers would be out of reach from interceptors (instead of just using the air defense stat, as you know the best defense is to not get shot at). IIRC the Germans had to use rocket interceptors to reach the altitude of the bombers. But I realize that is too much detail and you need to leave something for HoI4 ^^
So if traits are reduced by command level. Does that mean I can put logistical wizards on ALL levels above a panzer division to reduce its supply cost + having a skilled army group commander reducing it even further? Some numbers:
Division 100% of 0.25
Corps 50% of 0.25 = 0.125
Army 25% of 0.25 = 0.0625
Army Grp 12.5% of 0.25 = 0.03125
Theater 6.25% of 0.25 = 0.015625
==========================
Total = 0.484375
If Army group leader reduce supply by say 5% per skill (reasonable) then a skill 6 one will give a further 0.30 reduction.
We could be looking at a possible total max of 78.4% supply consumtion reduction
Even if they are calculated by multiplication we get a 59% supply consumtion reduction.
Division 100% of 0.25
Corps 50% of 0.25 = 0.125
Army 25% of 0.25 = 0.0625
Army Grp 12.5% of 0.25 = 0.03125
Theater 6.25% of 0.25 = 0.015625
==========================
Total = 0.484375
If Army group leader reduce supply by say 5% per skill (reasonable) then a skill 6 one will give a further 0.30 reduction.
We could be looking at a possible total max of 78.4% supply consumtion reduction
Even if they are calculated by multiplication we get a 59% supply consumtion reduction.
For a WWI static front ok but imagine that units must be close to its HQ to have benefits. How would you do that with such huge Corps? units are needed on many parts of the front and there are a lot of provinces in HoI3. I wouldnt like to reorganize my army every 5 minutes due to change of frontline to maintain the bonus. Imagine Leningrad - Stalingrad line: 1-2 divs per province (max 3) how would it be for 20 divs corps? Normandy? Ok after landing all can be grupped in 2 Corps - UK and US but what if the front gets wider or breakthrough begins? You need to wait for HQ units to come there to reorganize?
And another thing is - some skills give malus in HoI2. Like tank commando for tanks or the opposite. Some traits should be used carefully.
I think that the game will show that its just impossible to create such CoC if army should be operational.
There are maybee things in HOIII that are arguable, but one is not, from my opinion.
I only can congratulate to Johan and dev. team on this part of the game.
This is from my point of view the biggest and most important change from the times of first HOI.In Hearts of Iron,this part of the game is the heart of it.And this heart of the game is now mighty and strong.
Ability,and actualy an imperative to form true theaters of the war with its hierarchy of command is enormous improvement of realism,actualy this is now realy entirely new strategy,realistic and with so many new options and challenges.
If someone wanted to say or sad before this is not simulation of ww2 battlefields on grand scale, I think now it is clear it actualy now became that.
Congratulations once more and thank you!
I only can congratulate to Johan and dev. team on this part of the game.
This is from my point of view the biggest and most important change from the times of first HOI.In Hearts of Iron,this part of the game is the heart of it.And this heart of the game is now mighty and strong.
Ability,and actualy an imperative to form true theaters of the war with its hierarchy of command is enormous improvement of realism,actualy this is now realy entirely new strategy,realistic and with so many new options and challenges.
If someone wanted to say or sad before this is not simulation of ww2 battlefields on grand scale, I think now it is clear it actualy now became that.
Congratulations once more and thank you!
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Does encircling a HQ have an effect on it's bonus to it's units outside the encirclement?
This is another dream come true. One of the best news so far!
I simply love the confirmation of the details of the multilevel HQ and brigade splitting. Well done. I just wonder how AI will handle it...
A few questions though:
1. Will there be any limit of units under a parent HQ for a leader traits and skills to be applied? I mean e.g. - will a corps need to have max. 3 divisions for this purpose or can I have a 6-division corps will full skills and traits still applied on all of them?
2. And how about leaders XPs? Will they still loose all their XPs when being promoted?
A few questions though:
1. Will there be any limit of units under a parent HQ for a leader traits and skills to be applied? I mean e.g. - will a corps need to have max. 3 divisions for this purpose or can I have a 6-division corps will full skills and traits still applied on all of them?
2. And how about leaders XPs? Will they still loose all their XPs when being promoted?
This seems very interesting indeed.
I am a little bit worried that large armies could have a slight micro hell in regards to large divisional level re-organizations however (moving all those brigades around).
An example could be to have a "Statistics" screen where you could get an overview and modify divisional brigade structure (as well as military command structure in general).
Example: Say you have a "Armour" template consisting of {1 Armour, 1 Motor and 1 Artillery}, but after some research, Mechanized and SP Artillery is now available, you want to change the units you build with the old template to a new one with {1 Armour, 1 Mechanized and 1 SP Artillery}.
Instead of taking your 60 or so Armour divisions, building 60 Mech and 60 SP ART, moving these to the divisions in question, and then reorganizing one division at a time, just issuing an edict saying "Upgrade [Template: ARM 36] to [Template: ARM 41]" would make for less micro (The upgrade path would also make the front line units retain their experience).
Having the ability to actually "Upgrade" one template to another would be fantastic. However, this might require a "Template History" screen as well, where you can manage your new and old templates.
I do like the fact that strategic redeployment opens the unit up for attack. Is it correct to assume that the unit will move faster (i.e. take some time to load onto trains etc. then speed them away much faster than would otherwise be possible)
(I really like the fact that you can detach a brigade and have it manouver on its own though! That way, you don't have to move the entire division to beat down some partisans, or taking that tiny province you missed on your way, you can just detach a brigade and create a "Brigade-sized Division" to do the job ^^)
I am a little bit worried that large armies could have a slight micro hell in regards to large divisional level re-organizations however (moving all those brigades around).
An example could be to have a "Statistics" screen where you could get an overview and modify divisional brigade structure (as well as military command structure in general).
Example: Say you have a "Armour" template consisting of {1 Armour, 1 Motor and 1 Artillery}, but after some research, Mechanized and SP Artillery is now available, you want to change the units you build with the old template to a new one with {1 Armour, 1 Mechanized and 1 SP Artillery}.
Instead of taking your 60 or so Armour divisions, building 60 Mech and 60 SP ART, moving these to the divisions in question, and then reorganizing one division at a time, just issuing an edict saying "Upgrade [Template: ARM 36] to [Template: ARM 41]" would make for less micro (The upgrade path would also make the front line units retain their experience).
Having the ability to actually "Upgrade" one template to another would be fantastic. However, this might require a "Template History" screen as well, where you can manage your new and old templates.
I do like the fact that strategic redeployment opens the unit up for attack. Is it correct to assume that the unit will move faster (i.e. take some time to load onto trains etc. then speed them away much faster than would otherwise be possible)
(I really like the fact that you can detach a brigade and have it manouver on its own though! That way, you don't have to move the entire division to beat down some partisans, or taking that tiny province you missed on your way, you can just detach a brigade and create a "Brigade-sized Division" to do the job ^^)
Will be interesting to see how orders are issued.
If you can order a Corps to advance, you could retain cohesion etc.
Same to if you tell your army commander that "Advance to and hold a line here *mark on map*"
(Or to Theatre Commander: "Conquer Norway", "Defend France" etc.)
If you can order a Corps to advance, you could retain cohesion etc.
Same to if you tell your army commander that "Advance to and hold a line here *mark on map*"
(Or to Theatre Commander: "Conquer Norway", "Defend France" etc.)
Personally, I think it's better that leaders lose experience/skill when they're promoted. Commanding a corps is not the same as commanding a division, or an army - different (albeit overlapping) skill sets and abilities are required. The loss in skill/experience reflects a commander's 'learning curve' in his new command. In any case, active commanders will relatively quickly regain experience.
It's true that it's a different commanding type, but while they retain their skill level, this loosing XPs leads only to unnecessary micromanagement.
Because why would you promote a commander who has, let's say, around 80 XPs? You'd better wait a while until he reaches a new skill level and promote him only after that. But this requires to keep a close eye on him all the time until he gains 100 XPs. That's pretty frustrating in my opinion...
There is no need to create the full command structure and there are no penalties for doing so, you just forgo potential bonuses.