Development Diary #22 - 1st of April 2009

[Communazi]

I often invade poland then broker peace so I have a buffer with the SU so I can focus on invading France/UK/Spain. This is the sort of strategic element I'm worried about, perhaps having cores on another country should automatically have an event linked to it?

reclaiming the cores + lowering their national unity basically offers a peace deal where you get those cores and everything else is restored?

 

[American Traveler]

I have never posted on this message board before, but am posting today to say that I will likely not purchase this game without some form of player driven peace engine.

WW II was not an ideological battle to the finish; it was a political war, the same as every other war in history. Politicians then trump up ideological differences to first motivate their citizens to fight and win the war, then to help historians write accounts that are favorable to them.

Case and point, US Standard Oil provided fuel for the German Air Force, and although Americans don't realize it they once invaded Canada and also committed what numerically is a far worse genocide on the Native Americans (no, I'm not European or Canadian, I'm an American who loves his country but also knows the score).

As far as the game goes, to echo what has already been said, this features absence takes away a lot of re playability. I would have never played HOI 2 had this feature been absent-- In fact, I have never once played a game as Britain, Germany, Japan, USSR, or the USA. Thus, I have needed this engine to end all of my games conflicts.

Best,

Mike

 

[unmerged(12217)]

You know, you might have a point if this were a political simulator, but it is a war game - first, last and foremost. My enemies can seek peace at the end of my gun barrel or from six feet under ground - its all the same to me.

 

[Hansag]

Nice aesthetic touch to the mobilization button.

And it cant be modded in? please...

So if Argentina invades the Falklands in 1943, then it's a fight to the death between the allies and Argentina?

WWI was a war that ended with total German defeat when their national unity cracked.

There should be a "casualties" counter in the Strategic Warfare indexes as well in that case. I mean, if your military just conquers country after country WITHOUT significant casualties, then it shouldn't matter that much, but if you (or the AI takes control of one of your fronts) and launches suicide missions, then casualties should mount and lower national unity.

 

[BlueWarrior]

Nice aesthetic touch to the mobilization button.
So if Argentina invades the Falklands in 1943, then it's a fight to the death between the allies and Argentina?

I think the return to status quo event already mentioned by Paraox would take care of this.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

This DD is nothing short of awesome. Keep up the good work, People of the Paradox!

 

[Hansag]

Yah, but what I mean is, its now impossible to stop fighting when you've changed the status quo, i.e. conquered the Falklands and then integrated the province into your own realm.

 

[Sirveri]

So if Argentina invades the Falklands in 1943, then it's a fight to the death between the allies and Argentina?

That's pretty much the way it was in HoI2. I never touched falklands because I don't want the wrath of the allies to pour down and crush poor little Argentina.

I think we'll be able to write up our own 'decisions', and I suspect we'll be able to use those decisions to fire peace. I also suspect that this is how they'll fire Vichy.

We could write our own peace events and simply set AI=0 so the AI never uses them for total war scenarios.

Or, since we can likely use nat unity as a trigger,
country = GB
AI = 10
nat unit NOT = 20
Province NOT controlled
South Hampton OR
Plymouth OR
London OR
etc...

fire event "England abandons Europe to Facism"

Basically in this case the idea is that Germany has won the battle of britain and has bombed the country to pieces and has caused severe havoc in the atlantic which thanks to their victory in the air has made air interdiction of their wolf packs impossible. Faced with a successfull German sea lion invasion, the now desperate British offer peace for a chance to remain independant and cast off mainland Europe.

While I would also like to have a seperate peace screen (you guys already have it from EU3), there are work arounds. They're just annoying and take work and will basically mean vanilla won't be used very often.

 

[unmerged(66346)]

No longer will the Anschluss event fire on the 1st of March 1938 there is now a certain amount of uncertainty. Not to say that all events have been shunted into the decision system, but the key ones have been.

This is a very good news, less date-waiting even if it sacrifices pure historical accuracy.

Do we'll still have the opportunity to make almost all we want with date fixed events or shall modders rely more on gameplay this time ?

Examples that comes in my mind are :
- A coup d'etat/Assasination attempt on date X, player chooses if he want it to be successful or not.

 

[unmerged(138602)]

I have a question concerning technical breakthrus firing off after you capture nations, etc.. Will this still happen or has this been changed as well?

I used to not research certain things, becuase you would get them for free after conquering or annexing other nations. I had to write them all down, so I would not waste time researching them.

 

[unmerged(41291)]

The new peace negotiations system doesnt look so good...And you should also think of ahistorical possibilities as well as mods,e.g. what if I play with Brazil and want to conquer only a province of Argentina?Annexation doesnt seem as the only realistic option here...

Indeed.
This "no peace agreement" thing will render most minors pretty much unplayable, since you simply won't be able to accomplish "small-scale" objectives, which is the only way you can play as a minor and "turtle" up to becoming a regional power.
Only the majors fought a "total war", and then again, it was more because of specific political, ideological, social, economic, strategic and military circumstances than because that's "THE WAY" to go in WWII.

Leaving most countries stuck in "total war" forever doesn't make any sense, at least to me, and will only lead to unrealistic and ahistorical gameplay. Like if country A goes to war with country B, and after 10 years of each having their single militia division sitting in their trenches without any fighting, and they don't any manpower, resources and supplies left, their government type has changed... and they can't sign a white peace?
And what if you play as, say, Colombia, go to war with Venezuela, destroy all of their army, navy, airforce, occupy all of their territory, they have 0 IC, 0 Manpower... and you can't ask them for a peace in which you ask for a single coastal province with a port???
:wacko:

 

[GLENN]

I have never posted on this message board before, but am posting today to say that I will likely not purchase this game without some form of player driven peace engine.

WW II was not an ideological battle to the finish; it was a political war, the same as every other war in history. Politicians then trump up ideological differences to first motivate their citizens to fight and win the war, then to help historians write accounts that are favorable to them.

Case and point, US Standard Oil provided fuel for the German Air Force, and although Americans don't realize it they once invaded Canada and also committed what numerically is a far worse genocide on the Native Americans (no, I'm not European or Canadian, I'm an American who loves his country but also knows the score).

As far as the game goes, to echo what has already been said, this features absence takes away a lot of re playability. I would have never played HOI 2 had this feature been absent-- In fact, I have never once played a game as Britain, Germany, Japan, USSR, or the USA. Thus, I have needed this engine to end all of my games conflicts.

Best,

Mike

This just goes to show you how the next generation looses touch with reality.


USSR and Germany killing people for lame reasons is only a differance of political opinion?

And the Japanese conduct on humanity is only a differance of political opinion?

You probabaly voted for Barack Obama too!

Next time you post, I'm going to bomb your house like Japan did to the USA. Surprise!

Then after you loose everything and cry, I'll just say its a difference of political opinion.

Come on over, I'll torture you until you accept my negotiated settlement. Mu ha ha......

Why do you think some things are banned from this game?

Under these conditions it is all out war.

If you can find a few people still alive from WW2 that experienced these things ask them about negotiated peace.

 

[unmerged(63310)]

This just goes to show you how the next generation looses touch with reality.


USSR and Germany killing people for lame reasons is only a differance of political opinion?

And the Japanese conduct on humanity is only a differance of political opinion?

You probabaly voted for Barrack too!

Well that is certainly true in an extent. Hitlers political opinion was that certain peoples were inferior.... although its very interesting to if you read when numerous times Hitler was quoted as saying Asiatics and Siberian Russians were the toughest people around and superior to Germans who had lived softly for the past few hundred years.

His main point though is that large nation states load up the propaganda to make their people think the sacrifices asked in a large war are worth it. In a way Germany actually failed to do that in the beginning... Hitler promised victory without much sacrifice to the public, privately to the Generals and such he said Germany would win only if the German people prepared themselves for great sacrifices but he didn't actually do that preparation until after 1941 which put Germany only on even footing with enemies which were numerically and economically vastly superior.

 

[unmerged(63310)]

No peace short of total victory seems very foolish to me from a game play as well as historical perspective. That limits playable nations to mostly the majors or large minors.

The model in HoI3 political system is nearly perfect to do so much more though! With the drift of ideologies and factions already modeled it seems it would be simple to make a diplomatic and spying task which had a large cost and long duration to build up one nations claims on other territories... basically what Germany did successfully up until Danzig. Japan successfully as well in Manchuria and Korea. Russia did so with Finland, USA with Cuba, and Pacific islands...

If in the game you wanted to take Hungry and spent 8 years and most of leadership points making claims on Romania... hoping Romania doesn't join Axis and your neglect of your military and industry due to the political campaign wages can be overcome with skill, you just might be able to take some Romanian territory and make it your own national territory. Not entire Romania... but even 25% would give you as Hungary much more chances of playing larger part in the war. It would be a long shot but that is the fun in playing a minor. Or take Turkey... building a open political campaign to remake Ottoman empire... sure its ahistorical but only somewhat and if it takes 5-10 years just to reclaim some of the near mid east, then you still gotta go to war to capture those claims... more difficult to abuse pressing claims on a few provinces for peace as it has real costs but still allows many minors to be very fun to play ahistorically with long timeline and good planning.

 

[GLENN]

If you read closely.............. and check the posts from PI......

I thought they said the big 3 was limited to all out war.

Yes, you can have your cake as a minor, but try try try to take a major.

 

[Delta107]

Acctually, AI almost never complied to my demands except small nations that are annexed. I would agree that WWII was a total war, and that feature removes a lot of exploitment.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier - Absolutely LOVE the idea of occupation policies. Finally, you can play a smart occupation policy as a fascist, or a dumb occupation as a democracy. It always kinda annoyed me that the democracies got an almost free ride on occupied territory. I just hope that there is an occupation policy that allows for liberation of friendly (or allied) territory. It always seemed odd to me that you would get partisans in France as the US taking back the land from the Germans.

 

[BlueWarrior]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier - Absolutely LOVE the idea of occupation policies. Finally, you can play a smart occupation policy as a fascist, or a dumb occupation as a democracy. It always kinda annoyed me that the democracies got an almost free ride on occupied territory. I just hope that there is an occupation policy that allows for liberation of friendly (or allied) territory. It always seemed odd to me that you would get partisans in France as the US taking back the land from the Germans.

If found it quite annoying too. I think though that in HOI3 this will dovetail with the governments in exile thus negating this issue for a liberator.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

On the other hand, in a previous dev diary, didn't Johan tell that one of the unique advantages of the Axis faction is the ability to fabricate claims? Or am I just making stuff up?

Yes you are, the Axis "special power" is Limited War.

 

[Sunfighter]

Sorry if its already been asked and answered, but since there is no peace now, How does the winter war work since I assume a ceasefire cant be declared. Plus i guess minor wars are now a fight to the death, which will be bad considering the ahistorical hungry vs romania, colombia, equador vs peru wars you sometimes got in HOI2...though without the events system now those wars seem impossible. The no surrender idea just seems....way out of place..especially considering this game is using a lot of EU3 elements, and the peace deals system was fairly good in EU3, especially with the map showing you what territories youd gain.

I cant say i liked much anything in this diary. The lack of events and going to a pure EU3:IN decision plan seems to me will likely kill the randomness that i loved in HOI2. With the events system there was always that % chance the AI would do something unexpected...compile that with the number of events and every game felt somewhat different. EU3 was a great game, but play it enough times and youll notice that every game basically plays out the same way with a few minor variations and every nation had the same generic AI, the only difference was some of the considered major nations at the time had boosts to certain stats to give them an unfair advantage to their generic AI over a minor nations same generic AI. Looks like HOI3 will be going this route as well.

I think ill wait for some reviews now of this game to see how it plays to decide if I will buy it or not.