Development Diary #20 - National Focus

[unmerged(91061)]

Exactly. I have seen several attempts to do the same for Prime Ministers - check whether the top one is Attlee or Churchill / Thatcher, and you can more or less predict the rest of the sequence without reading on.

The best remedy to this conundrum I've found was when reading a ranking of Australian Prime Ministers that used the criteria of "How successful were they in achieving their goals?" which essentially eliminated the left-right divide. I recall the ranking placed Fraser at No.10, with Whitlam and No.11, reasoning that Whitlam had twice as many successes as Fraser, but also twice as many failures (not counting the Constitutional Crisis), and it was merely the fact that Fraser government for longer (8 years) that put him in front, barely.


I also recall reading somewhere that National Foci do increase with technology. Had anyone else read that or am I imagining things?

 

[King]

I also recall reading somewhere that National Foci do increase with technology. Had anyone else read that or am I imagining things?

I could of sworn that I read that.

 

[Ex Mudder]

National Foci aren't just want the President (or Queen, or Parliament) wants. They are what the country wants. For the US, that would include what the Vanderbilts and Rockerfellers wanted, probably more so than what Useless President X was up too.

I can easily see using my focus points to "make more cappies" in states I want them to build factories in, or if I fall behind in railroad building. That's after I chase the Mexicans out of Colorado and the UK out of Oregon territory with the help of my military, ofc.

If Sweden has 3 points, I would hope the US has at least 4. Several would likely be spent getting enough people into adjacent colonies to I can turn them into States. I wonder if there will be an in game reason to split my points between future slave and free states, however.

Edit: is Waterford a state or a province? I thought the foci were state wide, but in that (alpha) shot it looks like they are placed in a province, not a state.

 

[unmerged(91061)]

I could of sworn that I read that.

This is great, so I'm not alone then. But we'll need proof. I propose we read every thread on this forum for the post that we must've both read. I'll read all the threads starting A through K, and you read all the threads starting J through Z. We'll meet back in a weeks times with our findings and present them to the first Paradox employee we find

 

[Weijun]

This is great, so I'm not alone then. But we'll need proof. I propose we read every thread on this forum for the post that we must've both read. I'll read all the threads starting A through K, and you read all the threads starting J through Z. We'll meet back in a weeks times with our findings and present them to the first Paradox employee we find

I am 90% sure this is all sarcasm/joking, but just in case:

The total number of national focus points depends on the number of national POPs you have and your technology level, each country always has a minimum of one national focus point.

 

[unmerged(91061)]

I am 90% sure this is all sarcasm/joking, but just in case:

I've been trying to think of some historical examples of National Foci. Obviously there's the American Colonisation of the mid-west. But, for instance what did France ever do that constituted a National Focus? Or Austria, or China?
I suppose you could say there was National Focus in Belgium rapaciously extracting rubber from the Congo Free State, for example.

 

[Snaake]

If Sweden has 3 points, I would hope the US has at least 4. Several would likely be spent getting enough people into adjacent colonies to I can turn them into States. I wonder if there will be an in game reason to split my points between future slave and free states, however.

So Sweden will have a maximum of 3. The US will then logically have a maximum of more than that, but keep in mind that almost all nations will probably start with only one, you'll have to research techs (economic? science? culture?) to increase the amount you have available.

 

[Snaake]

I've been trying to think of some historical examples of National Foci. Obviously there's the American Colonisation of the mid-west. But, for instance what did France ever do that constituted a National Focus? Or Austria, or China? I suppose you could say there was National Focus in Belgium rapaciously extracting rubber from the Congo Free State, for example.

For a lot of European countries: encouraged POP promotion from farmers and labourers to the industrial POPs, bureaucrats and clergy (teachers)? Plus directed key industries and railway building in key areas first.

Also (for France), building colonial bureaucracies (including police and such) in North African holdings.

 

[Weijun]

I've been trying to think of some historical examples of National Foci. Obviously there's the American Colonisation of the mid-west. But, for instance what did France ever do that constituted a National Focus? Or Austria, or China?
I suppose you could say there was National Focus in Belgium rapaciously extracting rubber from the Congo Free State, for example.

Did not Paris get disproportionate focus over other regions when it came to modernization? Did not every country have loci of economic activity? In China, the loci were in the Jiangnan region. Arguably, concessions forcibly shifted national foci.

When it comes to economics, culture, religion, immigration, and colonization, the reason certain regions became focal points happened because of factors too complex for the game to model. Sometimes government policy played a role, but often it did not. (Random) events can model some of this, but are a cruder mechanism (e.g. Gold Rush!) and were not very effective at modeling sustained activity (e.g. Chicago and St. Louis).

National focus is a compromise between realism (limits to what the state can accomplish) and allowing the player to shape his country ("half of the fun of Victoria"). As Johan put it:

National focus can be used to 'encourage' your POPs to move somewhere and become something. The exact form this encouragement takes depends on your own personal suspension of disbelief.

 

[Alex_brunius]

If Sweden has 3 points, I would hope the US has at least 4. Several would likely be spent getting enough people into adjacent colonies to I can turn them into States.

Well I think his point was that you can have half you states as focus points (right now). If USA have say 14 states then with that same system they can have a maximum off 7 national focuses.

 

[OHgamer]

We seem to be getting off track here with all this chatter about rankings of political leaders. Let's get back to the topic of the thread, and save such discussions for the Off Topic forum please.

 

[perwalther]

Thanks for the update.
Would there possibly be "education" as national focus?
afaik there were many Educational reforms during the Vicky era.

(not just 100% literacy slider setting

 

[Snaake]

Thanks for the update.
Would there possibly be "education" as national focus?
afaik there were many Educational reforms during the Vicky era.

(not just 100% literacy slider setting

I think that would be a combination of education slider for attracting more clergy(teachers) and paying them, and national focuses on clergy promotion. Amount of clergy (again, =teachers) goes up, literacy goes up.

 

[unmerged(91061)]

Interestingly, some modern analysts of Education Policy propose that the high esteem a nation holds teachers in may be a better driving force for education then high levels of funding. Social prestige influences the better educated to become teachers and pass on their better education.
National Foci would be a very good way of modelling this. That is, a nation can spend a bucket load on education, and that will net positive results. However, for truly phenomenal results you must spend a National Focus Point on education.
This then raises the question as to what can be achieved without applying a National Focus. What ceiling will there be for, say, colonial migration, before you make it a National Focus. Will, for example, Military recruiting never exceed X level without making it a National Focus.
On the other hand, will National Foci nudge nations in certain directions, but never to an extent greater then what a concerted policy would have anyway?

 

[perwalther]

I was thinking something towards Edu focus, would increase the probability of triggering advances, increase/decrease counsioness, or increase the efficiency of literacy slider. (maybe have some nice effiect in colonies?)

add, remove, tweak, but something like that. However Education just as industrialisation is a big part of the game and according to me deserves it own Nat Foc.

 

[unmerged(63310)]

I understand not wanting national focus for assimilation but something for education/literacy should be possible though maybe not from game start. A cultural or political tech unlocking it would be nice touch. Several states made large literacy drives in this era afterall.

 

[Snaake]

This then raises the question as to what can be achieved without applying a National Focus. What ceiling will there be for, say, colonial migration, before you make it a National Focus.

Well, I never figured out how to get Italians to migrate to my African colonies (playing as Italy that time), so they were doomed to eternal colonies. Historical, yes, but now it should be clear that you CAN do this with a national focus. Hard to say exactly, but I don't think a similar model to Vicky would be too far off: The Americas can attract immigrants (also to their "colonies" in the midwest and patagonia), African and Asian holdings of European countries have a harder, if not practically impossible job with this, if the state doesn't actually encourage a bureaucracy there.

perwalther, Ichon: I repeat my point that clergy, due to their function as teachers, effectively ARE the national focus for education (you get a bit of research and the CON reduction effect as well ). Furthermore, it would be a bit weird if you could somehow just increase education magically without increasing the amount of educators.

Cammunition: This is precisely why I like the national focus as presented here so much, and your post reflects my feelings on Johan's (King's?) statement that what the national focus represents depends on your own personal suspension of disbelief.

For example, for POP promotion encouragement, it can mean a high esteem for the target POP type in the state, a selective draft program, or even government-sponsored educational programs (I'm thinking mostly supporting the education of farmers/laborers to craftsmen with this).

 

[Alex_brunius]

Like other have pointed out there is already a national focus to convert people to clergy(teachers)...

This is what an education drive would do aswell, hiring more teachers and putting them to work in schools. Why have two things for the same effect?

 

[JoeGiavani]

Seems weird that encouraging education would also encourage clergy, which in turn would lower consciousness...so the better educated people are, the easier they are for the state to control.

 

[Snaake]

Seems weird that encouraging education would also encourage clergy, which in turn would lower consciousness...so the better educated people are, the easier they are for the state to control.

It's an abstraction, largely for game mechanics issues (clergy now get paid out of the education slider, and since they're the educators now, they're actually useful... I tended to demote any significant clergy POPs once I got research under way properly in Vicky). Don't start debating how appropriate it is, this was discussed back in the DD that first introduced clergy and teachers, and was ended by Johan's statement (and moderator vigilance).