Development Diary - 17th of December

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Thure

Chartularius Hamburgensis
54 Badges
May 13, 2009
17.056
8.792
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 500k Club
  • Darkest Hour
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
May I ask what the reason for the uncolonised Ireland is? I mean all of those tribes were mentioned by Ceasar and even later, so by that standard I see no reason to exclude those coastal Irish tribes. Or is there archeologic evidence the Celts settled there after 300 BC?

I think the problem is, that the Caesarian tribes in Ireland are not likely to have exist earlier. There is no base in Archaeology or Oral sources for them. Most of influence which is associated with them only came to Ireland around 150 BC. We don't even have La Tene culture on Ireland in 300 BC. So the tribes mentioned by Ptolemy, Caesar or Tacitus are not necessary the same tribes living there in 300 BC. Except some archaeological finds Ireland was pretty spare around this time. The situation is so bad there are even some guys like O'Rahilly suggestion semi-mythological history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Rahilly's_historical_model

Or do you have better sources like you have for Germany?
 

Ravenant

Corporal
30 Badges
Sep 5, 2014
39
2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
You may add more tribes in Hibernia from Ptolemy Geographia (150 AD though). For example the Iberni (Hibernia derive from them).

More info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Ireland (the Iron Age period)

r14mthzdg5q01.jpg
 
Last edited:

Thure

Chartularius Hamburgensis
54 Badges
May 13, 2009
17.056
8.792
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 500k Club
  • Darkest Hour
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris

Ravenant

Corporal
30 Badges
Sep 5, 2014
39
2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
I would like to ask a question. Many ancient tribes are well into the iron age as opposed, for example, to the greek world. The line that separates one era from another is the beginning of writing and record of human history. My question is the next. Can you discover the alphabet and thus trigger and era change for your tribal kingdom? How does being in the iron age affect trade as opposed to more advanced countries? I mean, it is useful to know math when you count money and know letters to understand those savage barbarians :p
 

Ravenant

Corporal
30 Badges
Sep 5, 2014
39
2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
As you said... this is 150 AD. Archaeology didn't suggest that most of them would exist in 300 BC.
But Im pretty sure that if romans called Hibernia to Ireland, you at least had Ibernians. Besides the same applies to Britain and its tribes as they suppose that the tribes were there.
 

...............

First Lieutenant
8 Badges
Feb 11, 2011
221
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
I think the problem is, that the Caesarian tribes in Ireland are not likely to have exist earlier. There is no base in Archaeology or Oral sources for them. Most of influence which is associated with them only came to Ireland around 150 BC. We don't even have La Tene culture on Ireland in 300 BC. So the tribes mentioned by Ptolemy, Caesar or Tacitus are not necessary the same tribes living there in 300 BC. Except some archaeological finds Ireland was pretty spare around this time. The situation is so bad there are even some guys like O'Rahilly suggestion semi-mythological history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Rahilly's_historical_model

Or do you have better sources like you have for Germany?

Where did you get that information?

The Iron Age in Ireland began about 600 BCE. The period between the start of the Iron Age and the historic period (431 CE) saw the gradual infiltration of small groups of Celtic-speaking people into Ireland,[9][10] with items of the continental Celtic La Tene style being found in at least the northern part of the island by about 300 BCE.[11][12] The result of a gradual blending of Celtic and indigenous cultures would result in the emergence of Gaelic culture by the fifth century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland#Stone_Age_to_Bronze_Age

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Celtic_peoples_and_tribes#Ireland_(Hibernia)
 

Palando

RESTITVTOR ORBIS
50 Badges
Feb 23, 2017
1.173
190
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
I think the problem is, that the Caesarian tribes in Ireland are not likely to have exist earlier. There is no base in Archaeology or Oral sources for them. Most of influence which is associated with them only came to Ireland around 150 BC. We don't even have La Tene culture on Ireland in 300 BC. So the tribes mentioned by Ptolemy, Caesar or Tacitus are not necessary the same tribes living there in 300 BC. Except some archaeological finds Ireland was pretty spare around this time. The situation is so bad there are even some guys like O'Rahilly suggestion semi-mythological history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Rahilly's_historical_model

Or do you have better sources like you have for Germany?
I'm by far no expert when it comes to Ireland, but on Wiki I found the information that there were Celtic tribes in Ireland far earlier than 300 BC.

Furthermore, I don't think that a model developed several decades ago is that accurate, as there were many archeological discoveries since then.
As you said... this is 150 AD. Archaeology didn't suggest that most of them would exist in 300 BC.
By that standard, you'd need to depopulate all of Britain, all of Scandinavia and even Gaul would be questionable. All the names we have for these tribes appear far later on for the first time. Caesar's conquest is 250 years after the game starts, and I doubt there were no changes at all; yet it'd be stupid to have a completely uncolonised map, because we lack the exact sources, so I understand the devs when they take the names that appear later on.
 

Hrodbert

Sergeant
71 Badges
Dec 5, 2013
58
80
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
Hello and welcome to this weeks developer diary!

Today I will be returning to the matter of Trade, Diplomacy and to the geopolitical setup of the British Isles.

Trade

Trade is a subject that is integral to this era in many ways. Flow of goods and people over the Mediterranean is the primary reason it was natural for an empire to form around it. This is how this sea could ever conceivably become Mare Nostrum, or “our sea”, to the Romans.

In Imperator Trade is not limited to something you conduct to make money, it also ties into the other systems in the game.

So before I move on to the things we have adjusted with this system I will reiterate what we have touched upon in previous diaries about Trade in Imperator. I will also be using Grain as an example:

  • Each city produces one type of Trade Good for your province. -For instance Grain.
  • Having a Trade Good present in a province gives a modifier in that entire province. -Grain gives +0.10% Population Growth.
  • Each of your provinces has a certain number of routes it can use to import goods, and each route can be used to bring in one Trade Good.
  • Having a surplus of a Trade Good in a province gives a small modifier, but one that stacks for each extra unit of surplus. -For each surplus of Grain the Province gets +0.05% Population Growth.
  • Trade Routes can be used to import Trade Goods either making them present in provinces where they are not produced, or to increase the surplus of them, adding to the stacking modifier in the province. -The more Grain you bring in the more Population growth your Province will get.
  • Exporting a Trade Good from a province also requires a surplus in that province.
  • Generating a surplus without importing requires can be done either if your province has more than once city producing the same Trade Good, or if it has 15 slaves in one of its cities. Each group of 15 Slaves will increase the Output of a Trade Good by 1.
  • Surplus of a Trade Good in your capital province gives a national bonus. Capitals have more import routes than other provinces, most notably they gain more from the rank of your country. -Grain gives +10% National Manpower when in surplus in capital.
Trade Good bonuses are dependent on the type of Good and they come in a wide variety. This allows you to tailor your provinces, and even more so your country, to your needs and desires by controlling what you produce and where you ship it.

Last but not least each active Trade Route creates Commerce Income in your province, which may add up to quite a bit of money if you have many active routes.


We have divided our Trade Goods into functional categories to reflect their effects:

  1. Strategic Goods such as Wood, Iron or Elephants, are required to be present in a province in order to recruit certain types of units there.
  2. Military Goods are those that impact the performance of your Armies.
  3. Growth Goods, such as Grain, are Trade Goods that increase Population Growth (and since population size reduces population growth these goods may also be required to maintain population without starvation in very populous regions).
  4. Population Goods are Trade Goods that will increase the happiness of your pops, making them more productive and less likely to revolt.
  5. Economy & Technology, the last category, provides a variety of bonuses to technology, buildings, tax, commerce, loyalty or civilization level.

By mixing and matching which Trade Goods you import, you can decide what kind of country you want to build.
By importing Strategic and Military goods you could build stronger and cheaper armies.
A mix of Growth and Population Goods would allow you to build a stronger internal economy, with more productive and prosperous population.
Technology boosting goods for greater scientific leaps.

And of course any mix of the above. Some things might not be as obvious, a country that conducts a lot of expansion may well see the need to focus on the Population Goods such as Wine, Olives and Precious Metals, to keep the recently conquered foreign populations happy.

Diplomatic Range
View attachment 431100

The Mediterranean world was in some ways very interconnected, but travel time, reputation and maintaining diplomats for long distance diplomacy for a small country would not have been easy.

In order to conduct most Diplomatic Interactions except for declaring war, military access, and suing for peace, will be limited by your Diplomatic Range.

In order to determine if you are within diplomatic range of another country, your maximum diplomatic range will be compared to the distance between your capital and theirs.

The Maximum Range is modified primarily by how high your Rank is, but it is also modified by inventions. An overlord and a subject will always be considered to be within Diplomatic Range of each other.

Powerful and advanced countries will thus be able to perform far reaching diplomacy, while smaller states will be more limited to their immediate area.


Exports:
We only touched briefly on export in the previous diary on trade, and what we did mention has changed. There are no longer any general Trade Access treaties. Rather than making you sign one deal to get access to all the Trade Goods of a country you will now be able to ask any country within diplomatic range to be allowed to import something they have a surplus of.

Likewise other countries will be approaching you for the right to import your Trade Goods.

So why would you agree to export something when there are so many nice benefits from stacking things inside your own country?


To start with there is an economic incentive. The amount of Commerce from international trade is much higher than that from internal trade routes. Meaning that exporting can net you much higher income, especially if you do it from somewhere with good modifiers to commerce (such as a province with many high happiness Citizens and Markets).

Secondly there is a fourth modifier to be had for exporting a Trade Good. For Grain, our old example above, this would be +5% National Manpower.

Taken together this means that export is sometimes quite a bit more lucrative than using your own import routes to move Trade Goods around within your own country, though there will of course still be situations where you may prefer not to export a Trade Good that would benefit a neighbor more than you are comfortable with.

The British Isles
View attachment 431082
Southern Britannia
View attachment 431083
As we move on into territory that is further from the Mediterranean we are now approaching lands of which we know far less. The British isles were by no means unknown to the ancient world, most recently the islands were supposedly visited by Pytheas of Massilia.

Of Pythias works however very little remains, and we only know them from what others have written about them. So for most cases we have had to extrapolate what information we do have backwards.

What we do now, from written sources as well as archaeology, is that the British isles were undergoing a period of growth and wealth. Rich in iron, base metals and even gold, these islands were also good agricultural land and are described as exporting grain and cattle.

Southern Britain would also have been in somewhat close contact with Gaul to the south, commercially as well as politically, and would in time come to receive increasing numbers of Gallic and Belgic tribesmen.


Starting Countries:
View attachment 431089
  • Icenia: Middle size Tribal Kingdom in what would much later be known as Norfolk. Would historically ally with the Romans in their invasion after our timeline. Icenia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Trinovantia: Another middle sized Tribal Kingdom, between Icenia and the Thames. Their prosperous capital Camulodunum has been suggested as a possible site for the legendary Camelot, at our start it was still an insignificant village. Trinovantia starts the game independent and unaligned.
  • Cantiacia: Tribal Kingdom stretching from the Thames to the English Channel. Described by Caesar as a maritime oriented kingdom, with close ties to the Gallic states to the south. Cantiacia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Durotriga: Small Tribal Kingdom of settled agriculturalists on the southern coast of the island. Durotriga starts independent and unaligned.
  • Dumnonia: Tribal kingdom in modern Devon and Cornwall, with an economy based on fishing and tin mining. Tin was so bountiful that it found its way from this region far south, helped by Phoenician merchants from Gadez in southern hispania. Dumnonia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Ordovicia: Tribal Kingdom in the fortified hills of northern Wales. Ordovicia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Demetia: Small Tribal Kingdom in western Wales, etymologically close to the later name Dyfed. Demetia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Deceanglia: Small Tribal Kingdom in northern Wales, a region that would become known for its precious metal mines during Roman Rule. Deceanglia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Siluria: Warlike tribal kingdom in southern Wales. Known later for their resistance to Roman occupation. Siluria starts independent and unaligned.
  • Dubonnia: Large Tribal Kingdom in modern Western England. The Dubonni economy and society is based on agriculture and like many other societies in the British isles and elsewhere guarded their people with hill forts. Dubonnia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Cornovia: Tribal kingdom in the northern midlands, north of Dubonnia. Starts independent and unaligned.
Northern Britannia, Caledonia and Hibernia
View attachment 431087
As in Southern Britannia there are scant sources for this region. The north was only partially subdued by Rome and so we have even less to go on here in some ways.

The southern part of this region is home to the strongest of the Pretani states, while the far north of Caledonia has a number of resilient Pictish kingdoms, in between some unowned (but populated) stretches of land.

As in the south the region had seen the rise of societies around strong hill forts, and is home to a number of growing cities in the Lowlands and Northern England.

Starting Countries:
View attachment 431086
  • Brigantia: Largest Tribal Kingdom in Britain, and at the start also the strongest. Controls all land between the Irish and North Seas. Would remain a substantial power long after Roman conquest. At start Brigantia is independent and unaligned.
  • Parisia: Small tribal kingdom in modern west Yorkshire, part of the Arras culture. Would in time come under considerable influence from Belgic tribesmen who migrated into this region. Parisia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Carvetia: Tribal kingdom to the north of Brigantia, and likely closely related to them. Starts independent and unaligned.
  • Votadinia: Pictish Tribal kingdom in what would become the northern end of Roman Britain, today Southern Scotland and Northern England. Votadinia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Damnonia: Pictish Tribal Kingdom in in the western lowlands. Very little is known of this tribe, which is only attested in Ptolemy’s Geography. Damnonia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Taexalia: Pictish Tribal Kingdom in the highlands. Starts independent and unaligned.
  • Caledonia: Pictish Tribal Kingdom representing the tribes of the northern highlands. Starts isolated, independent and unaligned, at the northern tip of the island.
  • Ulatia: Hibernian Tribal kingdom in Northern Ireland, representing the tribes around the royal center at Navan Fort. Starts independent and unaligned.
Why only one Irish tag? There's enough names and rough locations in the geographies and gameplay wise there is no attested invasion into Ireland so just leaving it open creates a vacuum that didn't exist?
 

Zarastro Marchio

Sergeant
38 Badges
Oct 5, 2018
96
129
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Will it be possible to disrupt trade routes by occupying provinces, and deprive e.g. islands from receiving valuable ressources through a blockade? Like for example a Carthaginian fleet blockading Sicily, thus depriving the island of Iron and preventing Rome from recruiting heavy infantry there.
 

Thure

Chartularius Hamburgensis
54 Badges
May 13, 2009
17.056
8.792
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 500k Club
  • Darkest Hour
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris

So... the second link only shows tribes mentioned by Ptolemy which was in the 2nd century AD... what does it help for 300 BC? Also your first link proves that the North was inhabitated around 300 BC which still lives out the south. Archaeology mostly agrees that a setup like by Ptolemy doesn't make much sense.

I'm by far no expert when it comes to Ireland, but on Wiki I found the information that there were Celtic tribes in Ireland far earlier than 300 BC.

Furthermore, I don't think that a model developed several decades ago is that accurate, as there were many archeological discoveries since then.

By that standard, you'd need to depopulate all of Britain, all of Scandinavia and even Gaul would be questionable. All the names we have for these tribes appear far later on for the first time. Caesar's conquest is 250 years after the game starts, and I doubt there were no changes at all; yet it'd be stupid to have a completely uncolonised map, because we lack the exact sources, so I understand the devs when they take the names that appear later on.

Than show me the sources. The problem is the tribes mentioned in the Ptolemy etc. are not making sense for 300 BC. Archaeology suggest that the tribes living there around 1AD were different cultures than 300 BC. Yes, they were celts. But we don't know which ones. Most of the mentioned tribes seems to be Britonic tribes which came from Britain to Ireland around 150 BC. As Wikipedia mentioned 'The period between the start of the Iron Age and the historic period (431 CE) saw the gradual infiltration of small groups of Celtic-speaking people into Ireland,[9][10] with items of the continental Celtic La Tene style being found in at least the northern part of the island by about 300 BCE.' So the North would be populated, not the South.
I agree that maybe some of the tribes should be added, but the archaeolgy seems to suggest that only a small part of Ireland was actually develeped enough to represent some tribes. Brigantes seem likely to only appeared around 150 BC, which would explain the influence from the British Islands.

Pagan Celtic Ireland by Barry Raftery doesn't name many of the tribes for this era for exemple. His book shows that most likely around 150 BC there was a large tribal movement in Ireland and the appearence of the La Tene culture, which suggest invasion from outside (which would likely be the tribes which are mentioned by Ptolemy)
 

Glacier87

Sergeant
96 Badges
Dec 27, 2014
88
106
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
The game looks better every week and you guys are doing a great job!
Just One question though - What were your reasons for making exported grain give National Pop Growth?
 

Palando

RESTITVTOR ORBIS
50 Badges
Feb 23, 2017
1.173
190
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
So... the second link only shows tribes mentioned by Ptolemy which was in the 2nd century AD... what does it help for 300 BC? Also your first link proves that the North was inhabitated around 300 BC which still lives out the south. Archaeology mostly agrees that a setup like by Ptolemy doesn't make much sense.



Than show me the sources. The problem is the tribes mentioned in the Ptolemy etc. are not making sense for 300 BC. Archaeology suggest that the tribes living there around 1AD were different cultures than 300 BC. Yes, they were celts. But we don't know which ones. Most of the mentioned tribes seems to be Britonic tribes which came from Britain to Ireland around 150 BC. As Wikipedia mentioned 'The period between the start of the Iron Age and the historic period (431 CE) saw the gradual infiltration of small groups of Celtic-speaking people into Ireland,[9][10] with items of the continental Celtic La Tene style being found in at least the northern part of the island by about 300 BCE.' So the North would be populated, not the South.
I agree that maybe some of the tribes should be added, but the archaeolgy seems to suggest that only a small part of Ireland was actually develeped enough to represent some tribes. Brigantes seem likely to only appeared around 150 BC, which would explain the influence from the British Islands.

Pagan Celtic Ireland by Barry Raftery doesn't name many of the tribes for this era for exemple. His book shows that most likely around 150 BC there was a large tribal movement in Ireland and the appearence of the La Tene culture, which suggest invasion from outside (which would likely be the tribes which are mentioned by Ptolemy)
You should maybe look up the names of Britannic tribes that were mentioned in this DD, as then you'd find out that their first mention certainly wasn't in or before 300 BC, but 250 to 400 years later. I've already pointed out why I think that's justifieable and even necessary.

I based my judgement on this:
The Irish Iron Age has long been thought to begin around 500 BC and then continue until the Christian era in Ireland, which brought some written records and therefore the end of prehistoric Ireland. This view has been somewhat upset by the recent carbon-dating of the wood shaft of a very elegant iron spearhead found in the River Inny, which gave a date of between 811 and 673 BC. This may further erode the belief, still held by some, that the arrival of iron-working marked the beginning of the arrival of the Celts (i.e. speakers of the Proto-Celtic language) and thus Indo-European speakers, to the island.[46]
 

Eltener

First Lieutenant
69 Badges
Jul 15, 2015
288
1.294
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • War of the Vikings
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
If diplo range is based solely on distance between capitals + modifiers, doesn't that potentially mean two nations could border each other but be out of diplo range?
 

Tiberionus

Sergeant
72 Badges
Aug 21, 2018
93
50
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
It seems like slaves are an absolutely critical part of the economy in this game. They produce tax revenue and increase the amount of goods produced in a province, leaving the other pops with only technological advancement points, commerce, and manpower if I recall. Seems like slaves will have an outsized impact, what is someone supposed to do if they have few slaves, leaving them with only the basic trade production, thus leaving that nation with little chance to trade to produce commerce with and very little tax revenue?
 

Thure

Chartularius Hamburgensis
54 Badges
May 13, 2009
17.056
8.792
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 500k Club
  • Darkest Hour
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
You should maybe look up the names of Britannic tribes that were mentioned in this DD, as then you'd find out that their first mention certainly wasn't in or before 300 BC, but 250 to 400 years later. I've already pointed out why I think that's justifieable and even necessary.

I based my judgement on this:

Again. I already TOLD you my source. Pagan Celtic Ireland by Barry Raftery. Maybe this guy isn't a name for you? You should read him up, because he is the best source, not wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Raftery

I don't say there were no people in Ireland. I just said that the Ptolemy tribes don't make sense. That's from 450 years later. That would be like claiming 500 years ago Belgium must have existed, because it exists today. I never denied that Celts were living in Ireland. But Barry Raftery clearly proves in his book, that there was a large movement of tribes around 150 BC and that the La Tene culture most likely appeared around this time in Ireland (even if archeologists can't really say when exactly).

I even agree that maybe some more tribes should be added like the Iverni. But Ireland shouldn't be designed around reports 400-500 years after the start date. Based on everything Raftery wrote it makes not much sense either. Northern Ireland was the place with La Tene culture, not the south. And influence from Britain only appeared around 150 which would suggest a date from when the Brigantes came (if they are the same as the ones in Britain).

As said: More tribes would be nice, but not based on Ptolemy which would be like making the start date of EU4 based on Europe in 1914
 

Arnulf Floyd

Captain
Oct 22, 2018
499
70
Good devblog. Regarding British isles, as all regions beyond Mediterranean and Middle East, we have few information in 300 BC. I like as Paradox not let Britain empty. I am fine with all tribes despite all of them not exists in 300 BC:D Diplomacy range is a nice feature