Development Diary #14 - National Focuses
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Italy is pretty interesting as an rather weak (compared to the major nations of europe) but ambitious nation with desire to create an empire.
You have the possibility to ally with or against Germany and then betray your allies later on then they have gotten weak.
Yes. Given time, Italy had potential to become truly major power like Germany. Along with Germans, they were first ones to have idea of armored divisions, they did have colonies like France and Great Britain, something Germany did not have, and those Italian units that actually had proper equipment fought very well, most notablyBersaglieri i who were no doubt comparable to Germans.
They had good navy also, capable of challenging British at Mediterranean. And they had many potential nations to conguer at Balkans. And idea of Second Roman Empire.
Italy is actually one of the most interesting nations to play as, if player manages to make Italy strong enough to not reguire help from Germany, it can decisively affect outcome of the war.
I wouldn't consider attacking a bunch of underdeveloped African countries ambitious. Germany was ambitious. Italy's ambitions were hilariously mediocre.
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I would certainly say that Italy is among the most played countries (with UK, Germany, USA, Soviet Union and Japan). France is a bit problematic for players. If you do well, you'll end the war pretty quickly and it'll become boring. If you lose, well it's not going to be much fun after that. I personally think China is a more interesting option but from a historical perspective the only thing they did was just act as a meatgrinder for the Japanese whereas France had a slightly more active and global role in the war even after their defeat. Especially depending on how the whole France/Vichy France issue is going to be dealt with in HoI4 (and how the Free French Forces is implemented), France might be more interesting an option than in the previous iterations.
yes :happy:
edit: yes germans were ambitious, even a mission to mars would be less ambitious than what had hitler in mind, so tell us how china had awesome ambitions compared to nazis
P.S: i'm not at all against giving china a national focus tree, but stating that china deserves it more than the #1 axis partner is a bit scary
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Not really a good comparison to make... Italy is fun to play as. China has a better story though. It has a great potential to start from a low point and and then end the game on a high note.
Where did I say that Italy "deserves" whatever it is you're saying more than China? I just fail to see how invading Ethiopia or other lesser underdeveloped countries is somehow "ambitious". Japan invading China was ambitious because it takes a lot of manpower and resources to hold. Germany conquering European countries is ambitious because they were developed. China defending itself against Japan with minimal assistance from other "Allies", quote quote seeing as how they had more cooperation from Germany and the SU than the US, is noteworthy because it was against overwhelming odds, while it was in a state of civil war no less. Russia defeating Germany is awesome because it recovered from overwhelming defeat in the first phase of the war. Italy invading and waging war on small or underdeveloped countries or territories like Ethiopia, Somaliland, Eritrea, and Albania is not in any way ambitious or noteworthy. Italy couldn't even defeat Greece. Idk, seems rather unimpressive to me.
Italy's ambitions were huge. Mussolini raised support for the war based on what he called the 'Mare Nostrum'; complete control of the Mediterranean by owning almost it's entire coast, across the Balkans, Greece, Turkey, the Levant, Egypt, all the way to Tunis. Basically a new Roman Empire.
Italy's problem was that it thought it was more powerful than it actually was and underestimated the Greeks, and Britain's ability to defend her African territories.
Playing as this country attempting to make this ambition real certainly makes Italy an interesting nation.
P.S. Anyway, I have no doubt that China will be added in a post-release update, perhaps alongside an Asia-themed expansion.
Naw. I can't imagine anyone who would want to play THAT nation....
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I don't see the need to attack another major just because you feel your preferred country was slighted of major status. It is not an either/or situation. There is no reason why both Italy and China cannot both be considered major. In fact, as far as this thread is concerned, I'd like every nation on the planet to get a customized national focus* tree whether they are a major or not. (However, I understand the need to focus on the majors to get the game completed.). But if it must be a win / lose scenario, I know where my vote goes -- Italy. It was considered a major nation at the time. It had a navy to project power, it had colonies, it was influential diplomatically, it claimed a sphere of influence, etc. It was the smallest of the big boys. China had potential. Even FDR recognized that. However, potential is the key word. That potential was not realized until much later, and not even by Nationalist China. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Nationalist a China currently reduced to an island holdout that only exists because of US nuclear deterrent? So, the major should be Communist China before Nationalist China. Again, it doesn't have to be either / or. Ideally, I'd like to see both Chinas get their own tree. That would be an effective way to railroad the game towards the historical outcome (which was never achieved in Hoi3), but would still allow for ahistorical play where Nationalist China finally taps into all that untapped potential.
*It should be neither focuses or foci. The meaning of the word in this context is to concentrate on one thing at a time, to focus or concentrate on one thing. Thus, it should remain singular.
+1
It depends on what you mean: 1 nation and 1 focus, many nations and many focuses/foci. In the latter case is focuses/foci of nations or, equivalently, national focuses/foci.
I wonder if Italy will be awful like in real life (ie crippled in game) or relatively easy to turn into a major power like in previous Hoi games, with a little work of course.
As I understand it, the "National Focus" is used to make nations behave historical/enable them to be historical.
I assume that a national focus for Italy will have options for Austria (read: the AI will most likely follow a path that is historic, but a human player should have the option to say "No!").
Without a focus....how would one implement the Italian-Austrian relations?
Making them allies?
Or ignoring the Italian-Austrian relations altogether like in HOI3 where Germany can fire the Anschluss without any worries about Mussolini?
I assume that a national focus for Italy will have options for Austria (read: the AI will most likely follow a path that is historic, but a human player should have the option to say "No!").
Without a focus....how would one implement the Italian-Austrian relations?
Making them allies?
Or ignoring the Italian-Austrian relations altogether like in HOI3 where Germany can fire the Anschluss without any worries about Mussolini?
This is an interesting question.
@Podcat : is there any way the national focuses tree of majors can be at odds or interact with each other and what happen in that case ?
Do Germany anchlussing Austrie lock/enable other options for italy ?
Or what happens if both france an germany befriend poland for instance ?
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I guess that PI will provide us 2 different kinds of games : we could play a game mostly historical with little ahistoric skids, or completely sandbox games. I believe this should be made available thanks to this national focuses trees. And why not 3 kinds of games : strictly historical (a part from how the player decides to change the history) ; ahistorical ; totally sandbox.
My 2 cents.
If done right then national foci sound like a good way of replacing the historical events from the earlier HOI versions.
Because of the short timeframe I find I spend most of my HOI playtime with one of the big countries, so I'm happy that the effort is focused on them. Even if that means my learning game with Australia is slightly less interesting.
Edit: Chinese national foci would be nice too.
Because of the short timeframe I find I spend most of my HOI playtime with one of the big countries, so I'm happy that the effort is focused on them. Even if that means my learning game with Australia is slightly less interesting.
Edit: Chinese national foci would be nice too.
I think it has to do with "name recognition" as much as other factors. When most people think about WWII, Italy is one of the countries that immediately springs to mind; it's one of the major players, along with Germany, Britain, France, Japan and Russia. China, less so -- I think that to most people they're just one of the countries that fought Japan.
But yes, I absolutely agree they should become the "eight major", and I expect to see a "China DLC" come out at some point. Along with DLCs for Brazil, Canada, India, Australia/New Zealand, etc.
But yes, I absolutely agree they should become the "eight major", and I expect to see a "China DLC" come out at some point. Along with DLCs for Brazil, Canada, India, Australia/New Zealand, etc.
Probably be patch content like national ideas in EU.
Big DLC are mostly about new features and mechanics, while filling up the vanilla features is usually patch content