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Johan

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Well Christmas and New Year are over which means we have to stop sitting around enjoying holidays and go back to work. However don’t say we aren’t nice to you, despite not planning to we have decided to release a short developer diary talking abit about the intelligence system.

An important feature in any strategic war game is intelligence and perhaps most important of all only having part of the picture. The second part is how do you determine what the enemy has behind the line, especially if you are say Germany sitting in France and wondering what the Allies are up to over the other side of the channel.

As mentioned in passing in the previous developer diary we have several detection levels that allow you to see various levels of detail about a province. As with the previous incarnations of Hearts of Iron one way to find out things is your units on the front line patrolling and finding out what is on the other side of the front, this remains and forms your first shot and finding out what is there. However that doesn’t quite solve the problem of what is behind the line.

With that in mind let’s talk about a nice little change from Hearts of Iron 2, the radar station, no longer just a radar station but is now an intelligence-gathering site. The radar station is now also a signal intercept and analysis station, giving you (and the bad guys, mustn’t forget about them) the ability to peer behind enemy lines. The bigger the radar station the better you are at doing this.

A number of factors come into play here, firstly you have encryption and decryption, as with previous versions of Hearts of Iron these make it harder for the enemy to see what you are up to and easier for the you to determine what the enemy is up to. We also have a generic radio technology that gives combat bonuses to your units but also makes them easier to detect (our logic here that even if your ability to decrypt the enemy radio signals is poor things like traffic pattern analysis will allow you to build up a picture of what the enemy is doing).

Next is the level of the unit, the higher level of head quarters the easier they are to detect. Basically we feel that these have more to say than lower level HQs. It also allows you to do the rather neat trick of setting up an Army Group HQ (let’s call it the US 1st Army Group just for arguments sake) in southeastern England commanded by a senior General (perhaps Patton) and I suppose if we wanted to go the whole hog here we could assign a few army and corps HQs to this formation. As divisions are harder to detect than the higher level HQs the fact that no divisions can be detected doesn’t actually say there are none. So the German player cannot ignore the possibility that there could be an invasion at Calais.

Well that’s the theory at any rate, how does the effect the game. Well we now have an increasingly incomplete picture of what is going on behind enemy lines. We feel this adds two things to the game. First off is realism people’s intelligence picture wasn’t just limited to the front line and where aircraft happen to be flying they did know bits and pieces of what was happening else where. Secondly it adds another layer of strategy to the game, you are not just asking yourself where the enemy is but you also need to ask the question how good is my intelligence? It also has a very nice effect for the AI, a player can try and guess where the enemy is going to attack but the AI simply can’t. Now the AI can look behind enemy lines without having to resort to any of those crutches that annoy players so much. The AI can start to react to things like a build of allied troops in Southern England (could this be Overlord?) within exactly the same rule mechanics that a player is operating in.

As you can see here, Germany has a level 10 radar/listening station in western Germany, which reaches deeply into Western Europe. We are in the intelligence mapmode, where the provinces are coloured depending on what intelligence level you have on the province. Red means you have no intel, and various shades of green depict how much you know. As you can see, you can depict units or indications of units further behind frontlines, depending on the factors we’ve outlined earlier.

alpha_jan7.jpg
 

FOARP

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Awesome! The power to intercept transmissions (and spot enemy movements?) is something I had never thought of, but which would definitely improve the game. Plus this would end the phenomenon where a unit travelling from one point deep within your territory to another gets wiped out on the road by air attack - the enemy would have no idea when those units were being moved, but would if the unit was closer to the front.

Next is the level of the unit, the higher level of head quarters the easier they are to detect. Basically we feel that these have more to say than lower level HQs. It also allows you to do the rather neat trick of setting up an Army Group HQ (let’s call it the US 1st Army Group just for arguments sake) in southeastern England commanded by a senior General (perhaps Patton) and I suppose if we wanted to go the whole hog here we could assign a few army and corps HQs to this formation. As divisions are harder to detect than the higher level HQs the fact that no divisions can be detected doesn’t actually say there are none. So the German player cannot ignore the possibility that there could be an invasion at Calais.

Now, will the AI do this - will it try to fool you by creating fake HQs?

I can see the coolness of this - you launch an invasion of Belgium, you know where the Belgium GCHQ is but you have less of an idea where their divisions are at, you direct the main thrust of your offensive towards the GCHQ but get ambushed by the Belgians before you get there and so forth. This seems much more historical.

Plus - Judging from the map, AA, fortification (and factories?) are going to be constructed on a per-province/state/lande/oblast/whatever-name-you-want basis, but within the provinces there are smaller county-sized areas which you can manoeuvre within. So there is no need to build separate forts/AA for every geographical area on the border - these are dealt with at a higher level. Presumable infrastructure etc. are dealt with similarly.

What about once you have moved into enemy territory? Perhaps your HQ units have an in-built ability similar to that of the radar/transmission stations?

So do you need to capture every county to conquer a province? Or just chase the enemy out of the province at which point the unconquered counties become yours?

Also - I see Corp HQs - presumably the neighbouring divisions are subordinate to these, is there a limit to how far the divisions can move from the HQ? Or just a steadily increasing penalty? Or can orders only be issued to the corp?

Finally, it's great to see the Maastricht appendix on the map! I remember having some very nice ice cream in the shadow of the hall where they signed the treaty where they have signs showing you the distance to each of the EU capitals.
 
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The_Carbonater

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Really nice, I love the fact that the AI will be operating along similiar conditions as the players
 

Jolt

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Cute. But will Encryption be any beneficial to the player beyond the radar? Will the AI always know how many troops the player has on provinces?
 
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The map looks better, but again the box at the minimap is missmatched.


On the topic now:
The radar thingy is a little bit confusing. I always thinking that the radar is used to search for planes or ships.

But OK, it's just the name. If I understand now it is something like intelligence outpost? So what will happend when the enemy will conquer the province with it? Is it going to rebuild itself after some time?
 

dermeister

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What's with multiple unit locations per province? Are unit locations XY based now and not province based?
 

MaximusII

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Yay! I've waited for a better intel system!

(Hope they could maybe add the possiblity to let subs scout out ports)
 

Manziel

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I have been waiting for the diary the whole afternoon and there it is. The new intelligence sounds really nice but how will intelligence work at fast moving fronts? Will there be some kind of mobile radar station?
 

King

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What's with multiple unit locations per province? Are unit locations XY based now and not province based?

Those are regions, we've zoomed out a little here.
 
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Excellent, finally a very important aspect of warfare, information, is represented here, and I am quite happy that radar stations suddenly now are worth much more :)

That said, will radar stations be able to guide interceptors towards their target, or will they continue to add fixed combat boni for an air unit fighting in that province?
 

Pal

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This is fantastic. Really, fantastic. Now building this stuff is actually helping you... What I would like to know: If border troops are still peeking at the enemy, does it work exactly like in HoI2? Meaning that you can either see number and types of divisions + commanders or more obscure data like number of total corps... I always found the latter to be rather annoying, as you often got "1 corps" even if it had 12 divisions rather than just one... With the new command structure I assume that divisions are not going to be lumped together in such numbers anymore, right? So you could get at least estimates of sizes (division level, corps level, army level, ...)
 

hebelecan

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I think they each level of Encryption will make your radar more efficient
 

vertinox

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Welcome back!

Great update too!

One question though, will air superiority affect intelligence as well?

If you couldn't send up scout planes due to the overwhelming response of enemy fighters and if you had planes all the time in the air anyways if you had superiority so you'd have that to work with.
 

Terrifying Effigies

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It also has a very nice effect for the AI, a player can try and guess where the enemy is going to attack but the AI simply can’t. Now the AI can look behind enemy lines without having to resort to any of those crutches that annoy players so much. The AI can start to react to things like a build of allied troops in Southern England (could this be Overlord?) within exactly the same rule mechanics that a player is operating in.

Wow, that may be the first time ever a Paradox AI actually obeys the fog of war! Very impressive, I hope it all comes out working as intended.
 

unmerged(71032)

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So. does it mean that air combat will be adjusted so I can't just send stack of bombers over the province/provinces I'm interested and see in detail, what units are there?
 

mbabbs

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Oooh nice !

I wonder what other things will affect the Intelligence map. It would be great for example if allied resistance forces reported on units (i.e. Partisan activity) or even disinformation along the lines of Operation Mincemeat (possibly too complicated though).
 

unmerged(63715)

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Dec 20, 2006
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Thanks for the unexpected update. :)

The inteligence system sound extremely promissing and should add a nice touch to those situations, where you have to guard a long border but can't spare the troops to garrison each province.

And thank you for making the AI play by rules. :D

P.S.: The counters look very nice.
And I see that the world map is not finished yet: The "Intelligence"-tab still ahs the weather-icon on it and there are two inlabeled tabs.
 

unmerged(122975)

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It seems that fortifications and anti-air defences are region-based, not province-based.
 
Apr 7, 2005
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?
Just cause you can see the icon in the region mode it doesn't mean it is build per region. You can also see unit counters in the region mode, and they too are based in provinces.
 

unmerged(122975)

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Nov 6, 2008
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Why is Paris so visible? Any recent comercial flight? Tourists?:D
 
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