Developing Institutions Makes Playing in the East Too Easy

[Aywol]

If I am playing as, say, Tibet, I can ensure through knowledge sharing that my allies in North India will be far ahead in tech than countries in South India, China, or Persia. This is a strategy that the AI is helpless against, since the AI does not develop institutions. In my opinion, it makes playing in the East too easy: the player is too much of a geopolitical kingmaker.

I am not sure what a solution to this problem would look like.

 

[Dragonquack]

Completely agreed. Not only does it make the game far easier, it makes zero historical sense. A Japanese Feudal lord isn’t suddenly going to start contemplating the meaning of life and expression through art by growing a city

 

[atwix]

It used to be different. All alike in asia and westernize or suffer 6-9 techs behind europeans who then kick your ass. It was historical.. but annoying for most players and not encouraging to play ROTW back then. In 1.17 they changed it and gave chance to dev for institutions.

It gave small nations a chance versus big boys.. for example playing taungu vs ming back when cheevo was hard. Or south India minor. The spread was slow enough to keep an advantage.

 

[bigbadwolf_45]

Instead of allowing Eastern Nations to be as technologically advanced as western ones, I would suggest increasing the manpower and wealth of the East. Right now a fully formed AI Mughals can have a smaller army than a mediocre AI Austria... it makes no sense. Historically, the Mughals had an army of around 500,000 before the British arrived and were the wealthiest country on the planet.

 

[damnt512]

Instead of allowing Eastern Nations to be as technologically advanced as western ones, I would suggest increasing the manpower and wealth of the East. Right now a fully formed AI Mughals can have a smaller army than a mediocre AI Austria... it makes no sense. Historically, the Mughals had an army of around 500,000 before the British arrived and were the wealthiest country on the planet.

That actually sounds like a good idea, will make it a balancing act and make it more historical where asia is richer but europe had the better technological advantage in shipbuilding and gunpowder. But they'll probably only think about it in EU5.

 

[Orioniys]

I don't think that current institutions even make sense, do u really need colonialism to spur technological progress as a landlocked country? Stuff like Printing Press existed in china even before EU4 timeline, as well as very advanced metallurgy.

Having many institution or innovations present in different parts of the world, is a much better system imo. More polished and nuanced version of CK3 innovations can probably even fully replace current mana depended technology in EU4.

 

[atwix]

institutions never made sense, but its likely better these past years to play in Asia then playing before...

point being, DLC since 1,17 are to *encourage* players to play in ROTW rather then Europe..

Hence they make it easier and more interesting to play there.

 

[Kanem Bornu]

Having many institution or innovations present in different parts of the world, is a much better system imo. More polished and nuanced version of CK3 innovations can probably even fully replace current mana depended technology in EU4.

It would have to be substantially more nuanced. CK3's tech system is hardly a tech system at all. It just feels like a system of hard locked mechanics that you have either minimal or zero control over, depending on your situation and the in game date. I don't like it at all but I can understand how it appeals to a broader audience.

 

[Orioniys]

It would have to be substantially more nuanced. CK3's tech system is hardly a tech system at all. It just feels like a system of hard locked mechanics that you have either minimal or zero control over, depending on your situation and the in game date. I don't like it at all but I can understand how it appeals to a broader audience.

Well the current tech is exactly like that, hardlocked with levels you progress in linearly. CK3 innovations can be tweaked to give u more control quite easily.
But the hybrid of innovations and institutions looks promising to me. For example european advances in gunpowder weapons can be easily added as unique european advantage. At the same time Persia and India can have their own unique stuff, and not just sit waiting for new institution to spread.

 

[damnt512]

It would have to be substantially more nuanced. CK3's tech system is hardly a tech system at all. It just feels like a system of hard locked mechanics that you have either minimal or zero control over, depending on your situation and the in game date. I don't like it at all but I can understand how it appeals to a broader audience.

There's little technological advance in medieval age so it make sense to have little control of it.

 

[Aywol]

I quite like bigbadwolf_45's idea. People are always complaining that China, etc. has unrealistically low development.

 

[redshirt4life]

It's super annoying in multiplayer where everything outside of europe is basically free. In my multiplayer game the Mamluk player just invades as much as possible into india. They tried to coalition him but their tech is so far behind that all of them combined still hardly registered as a threat.

 

[Steel_atlas]

Not dev pushing institutions makes the game play so much more interesting to me.

 

[erneiz_hyde]

You can just not dev for institution and play that way, what's hard about that? If you think deving for institutions make playing Asia too easy, then playing in Europe is even easier because Institutions are basically handed out for free.

 

[LSF]

If you think it makes the game too easy, just dont do it. No one is obligating you to dev for instutions.

If the problem is MP, just play with an extra rule, like only Europe, or only Asia.

It is weird to complain on something completely optional.

 

[love sweden]

Institutions are also completely backwards. So Europe was the most advanced civilization in 1450 but once 1800 rolls around the entire world was fully equipped with as advanced if not even more advanced gunpowder technology then Europe?

 

[Dragonquack]

It used to be different. All alike in asia and westernize or suffer 6-9 techs behind europeans who then kick your ass. It was historical.. but annoying for most players and not encouraging to play ROTW back then. In 1.17 they changed it and gave chance to dev for institutions.

It gave small nations a chance versus big boys.. for example playing taungu vs ming back when cheevo was hard. Or south India minor. The spread was slow enough to keep an advantage.

Tbh I would prefer historical accuracy over this