Developer thoughts on the Victoria 3 leak

[Batu the Bold]

It wouldn't make sense for most feedback to come from an unfinished game. This feedbacks would do more harm than good to developers.

 

[CrackingShow]

Really sorry about the leak guys. Chin up!

 

[RhoxOS]

I personally don't agree with doing it, but I understand why people are posting their experiences with mechanics and features revealed in DD or Twitter.

However, some people were talking about stuff that was never revealed. Even in this very forum. What's the point of doing that?

 

[Son of a Duck]

I personally don't agree with doing it, but I understand why people are posting their experiences with mechanics and features revealed in DD or Twitter.

However, some people were talking about stuff that was never revealed. Even in this very forum. What's the point of doing that?

To provide criticism and further the discussion of V3

 

[thedarkendstar]

So something is telling about this he said any criticism or feedback given is useless as everything is a known issue as is accepting this at face value this tells me the game isn't not well even close to being finished if it was at least a percentage of feedback would be useful but the fact none of it is implies to me many if not most the mechanics are in the process of being overhauled.

 

[Fallofthepurple]

So something is telling about this he said any criticism or feedback given is useless as everything is a known issue as is accepting this at face value this tells me the game isn't not well even close to being finished if it was at least a percentage of feedback would be useful but the fact none of it is implies to me many if not most the mechanics are in the process of being overhauled.

I take from this you have bad news for the May or Summer (lol) release date people?

 

[jose2534]

I send the team lots of love and hugs! I know this is a punch to the gut, someone took advantage of your trust, but you will persevere and come on top, I'm sure of it!

 

[thedarkendstar]

I take from this you have bad news for the May or Summer (lol) release date people?

Well it just follows if none of the information is useful then literally everything on the complain list was and is up to change as is which if true means quite a bit in the development cycle left.

 

[IEKevin]

Well it just follows if none of the information is useful then literally everything on the complain list was and is up to change as is which if true means quite a bit in the development cycle left.

Could be the case it got internally delayed at least, due to the leak but seems doubtful.

 

[Rollex]

They were already outlined as in the dev diaries, so aside from technical fixes and minor adjustments, I suspect the core fundamental mechanics already found in the leaked build are unlikely to be changed much, if at all...

If you believe this, I sincerely doubt you have much, or any, experience with software development, let alone game development. When you are developing software, it is very, very common to re-do fundamental parts of the project from scratch. This is why the overwhelming majority of programming languages and paradigms are literally designed to allow the developers to create modular code (be it objects, classes, interfaces, functions, or anything else) that can easily be replaced or modified, no matter how fundamental the code is to the functioning of the rest of the project.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Thank you for taking the time to share the dev team's thoughts on the leak, and know that a lot of the good folks in the community share those thoughts. I hope the leak does not impact the dev work too much, but it's very understandable that it would be demoralizing to the team and set back work on the game.

A leak is a severe breach of trust in the developer not just by whoever leaked it, but also by those who willingly seek it out or share the information, screenshots, and videos from it. Not to mention how disrespectful to the people whose labor goes into making this or any other creative work. It's very disappointing to see so many in the community here and elsewhere engaging in this disrespectful behavior.

 

[Polarisan]

It's been a while since i commented on the forums.

Sad state of affairs, this leak. Honestly I just lurk around here for the DDs, was incredibly happy over Victoria 3 being announced, and I do admit that the wait is getting hard.

But I like that. Waiting for things makes them all the more tastier when you get them. This dance of desire is something that appeals a lot to me, fantasizing about the game or anything IRL.

All that this leak has done was just break that spell. That charm that paradox has on me. Some people get to test the game, I get it, but now that nearly everyone and their mother has tested out this leak and posted all about it I'm just at a loss for words. Is the game good? is it bad? Do I really care? Do the mechanics work?

I've seen a massive amount of negative feedback, which should be expected on a leaked version is what I tell myself, but now I even came to doubt my vision on that matter. I've just decided I'm going to stop looking at the subreddit and stuff, because sadly now my expectations of the game have been tarnished.

Which is something I wouldn't really like to say, but it is true. And I would respect paradox if it decided to just stop using community testers from now on, clearly not worth it.

Anyways, I'll get a coffee and go on about my merry life, whenver the game shows up on my steam page I'll dive into it.

Thanks for reading the rant.

 

[thedarkendstar]

If you believe this, I sincerely doubt you have much, or any, experience with software development, let alone game development. When you are developing software, it is very, very common to re-do fundamental parts of the project from scratch. This is why the overwhelming majority of programming languages and paradigms are literally designed to allow the developers to create modular code (be it objects, classes, interfaces, functions, or anything else) that can easily be replaced or modified, no matter how fundamental the code is to the functioning of the rest of the project.

The assumption above was probably based upon the idea the process was further along then it is that the fundamental structure had been put up and much like integral parts of say EU4 could not be rebuilt without rebuilding the rest of the game.

Trade for instance is so hard coded into EU4 Johan in the past has said something akin to they couldn't get rid of end nodes without basically creating a new game.

Many people probably assumed the game was already to this state.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Whatever gripes you have with these systems in the leaked state: it's irrelevant. Your impression is irrelevant because it is not based on a finished product. It's unfinished and therefore you don't know how it's supposed to be. You think trade and warfare have issues in this leaked version? Cool, that's like saying: "Hey, why does that car, I stole from the middle of the assembly line not start up? They should add an engine and a fuel tank!" completely pointless and meaningless criticism and feedback.

I don't even understand why you played this leaked version in the first place. I sure haven't because I understand this is not a finished product and not even remotely clsoe to what the product is supposed to be. So I have less than zero interest in playing this leaked version. If you want to spoil your experience playing Vicky 3 for the first time, fine go ahead, but stop pretending as if any feedback you give on this version is of any relevance.

How many changes could they make to combat before release? The complete removal of micro has left people only able to rely on Paradox saying it'll work well as a reason why this will be good
Also consider state of ck3's release and eu4's recent dlcs

 

[tdene]

Why are we suddenly pretending that criticism of mechanics that were already shown in the dev diaries, is now unfair because of the leak? You say its not ready to be shown, but most of the game has been revealed in the dev diaries, vlogs and AARs. You even changed politics because of feedback from the politics dev diaries, so the feedback clearly can be usable.

I don't want to be rude or unrespectful, it just seems weird to say that we cannot criticize these mechanics (trade, diplomatic plays, warfare) yet when they are working pretty much how they was presented in the dev diaries. Its not about bugs or glitches, its the intended design of these mechanics that we don't agree with.

Its not nice that the game leaked, but I think that open betas could be good for Paradox. I think we all remember the Imperator: Rome fiasco where people came with fair criticism and notes to each dev diary, yet no action was taken and the game released to horrible reviews. It has undergone many overhauls and still no one plays it. We just really want to avoid this with Victoria 3. Being able to play the game, even with its bugs and glitches, gives people a far better understanding of it and better ways to give feedback than just basing it of screenshots, texts and videos.

Update: The devs responded to this post a bit further down, I would recommend you guys read it

Here's an example. Combat.

There were lots of people dissatisfied by changes to the combat system. I was one of them. But I also wanted to wait until I could actually try it in-game.

In case y'all are not aware, the leaked build combat system is set up so that a player with proper micro can punch way above their level. Mindgames aside, the main culprit here is encirclements, and how the readily the game enables and encourages them.

Judging from the alpha, it would seem that the tactical military aspect of the game is mainly about playing around encirclements and intentional front-splitting, trying to bait your opponents into them, while simultaneously avoiding them yourself. And honestly, it actually feels better than Victoria 2. I did not imagine I would be saying this, but Victoria 3's combat system feels far more satisfying to successfully micro than Victoria 2.

But even though the leaked release has this really fun combat system that in multiplayer would become a dance of micro and counter-micro, the alpha has a critical feature unfinished: armies can instantly disengage magically teleport out of encirclements.

Imagine if this leak had not happened, Paradox fixed the teleportation bug, and then released a gameplay video showing a multiplayer game with constant front-line micro. Imagine, out of nowhere, seeing dev gameplay of the Franco-Prussian war where the dev uses front-splitting, baiting, and reserve unit micro to encircle half the enemy army and win a war through sheer micro, despite being numerically disadvantaged.

That would be super cool.
But instead the playerbase first saw this leaked version, where the seeds for a great military system were planted, but bugs kept it from being exciting.

 

[IsaacCAT]

So when something isn’t fully realized in the game yet, you’re going to come away with an inaccurate impression of what we intend it to be.

Development is an ongoing process that never ends.

Please do not demoralize for this, as you cannot control what some people do.

The majority of us are here to support you to shape Vic3 up to your vision, not only on release date, but in every iteration while there is passion to develop.

 

[tdene]

How many changes could they make to combat before release? The complete removal of micro has left people only able to rely on Paradox saying it'll work well as a reason why this will be good

I just wrote about this in my previous post, but the leaked version of the game allows for extremely rewarding combat micro that feels better than Victoria 2, and even has a bigger impact in my opinion.

Victoria 2 micro was all about building strong shape and counter-shape. But while superior shape always won wars, it wasn't spectacular, it was hard to see, and it was hard for inexperienced people to understand.

Victoria 3 has actual HoI-style encirclements. The AI-controlled generals will naturally seek them out, but as a player you can guarantee them by front-splitting and microing your advance/hold timing and reserve unit usage.

It would be super cool to see in practice. But the build that was leaked is incomplete, and has not yet fixed relevant bugs.

 

[Markusw7]

To be honest, I don't think that such a narrative does the justice. You say so much of the feedback we'll be getting from now on is going to be based on the leaked build but how can you make such an assumption that it is indeed going to be the case once the community is shown more of the current version of the game (in a gameplay)? When was the last time a Paradox Development studio's game was leaked, to make such general assumptions about community's crowd behaviour?

Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean, but it's important to look at the issue from the other perspective. From a purely cold-blooded, realist point of view the more community complain about genuine issues, the more force it has to push for changes or reassure the team that any changes that have been made so far were right to do (which is also a good line of argument to the business). I'm a software developer myself and let's face it- we (the developers) and the internal QA teams work within certain cognitive limits. Our perception of the software we develop (whether it's a game or an enterprise system doesn't really matter) inevitebly is different from the way it is perceived by the end users of it. In the end, what the community wants is the game that the community will pay for and enjoy, not the developers or testers- although when both "sides" enjoy the game, then that's probably the best measure of success.

We have numerous threads and reddit posts that are heavily referencing the leak in their criticisims, it's already happening!

 

[Nuklearius]

#

 

[ero_sk]

We have numerous threads and reddit posts that are heavily referencing the leak in their criticisims, it's already happening!

Well, you clearly didn't read carefully what I said and you came up with this wrong conclusion. I'll leave it here I guess.