Developer notes

[unmerged(15561)]

So why are no statements from the devs atm?

The patch was announced for end of june, nothing happened, even no more info here in the forum!

I don't want to wait much longer and will now play other games, it seems the devs don't really have learned to conversate with their costumers.

Well if they're not posting then they must be doing something? Three guesses????

Lets not hurry them, lets give them the time to get any kinks out of the code!

Maybe the devs are shy? You know what Russians are like. Send them some vodka... Im sure theyll come out of their shells!

 

[LordTheRon]

So why are no statements from the devs atm?

The patch was announced for end of june, nothing happened, even no more info here in the forum!

I don't want to wait much longer and will now play other games, it seems the devs don't really have learned to conversate with their costumers.

Wooow, don't jump the gun. Sure it would have nice to hear something from the devs, but like 2Coats says, they're probably very busy. It's the 2nd of July bit early to thow the game away and say the devs don't listen.

 

[Colbert30]

They are surely working on it.

Also, maybe, they don't want to release it so close to one of their game's exapansions (Crusader's Kings 2), even if it's only a DLC.

All in all, I'd rather wait for a solid product than have it eary but need to wait for patches to fix it because it's been rushed.

 

[unmerged(485425)]

So why are no statements from the devs atm?

The patch was announced for end of june, nothing happened, even no more info here in the forum!

I don't want to wait much longer and will now play other games, it seems the devs don't really have learned to conversate with their costumers.

Man, they hoped it would be ready by the end of the month, there was never a cast-iron guarantee. In fact, their first guesstimate was for August I believe, so anything before then is a bonus.

I would love to get it sooner rather than later but to express such concern now, just 2 days after the end of the month (which was over a weekend anyway) is too early. They're a small team, let them get on with it I say; do other things in the meantime if you genuinely can't wait for an update, time will go faster then.

 

[unmerged(170187)]

Well if they're not posting then they must be doing something? Three guesses????

Lets not hurry them, lets give them the time to get any kinks out of the code!

I work in software development making hot fixes for our customers, so I know what it is like to be under pressure from a deadline. That said, it doesn't matter how busy they are working on fixes, the estimate of the end of the month was given for the patch. They don't have to be active in the forums to know that they missed that deadline. In which case they should of stopped by the forums to just post a quick message that it's probably going to be X amount of time longer. At the company I work for they are real strict about deadlines and if we think we are not going to have the patch ready in time we give an update to the customer.

One of the worst PR moves you can do is promise something on a curtain deadline and then miss that deadline with no response. Missing a deadline is fine if you notify the customers a day or two before, or however soon you realize that it's near impossible to reach given the remaining time. Even though the patch may come and the customer is pleased for the moment there is still that lingering feeling that they were treated without any care. And in the longer run that feeling can build up in customer dissatisfaction to the point that they simply throw their hands up and leave.

It's a lot like dating for those of you who are old enough. When your girl friend gets mad over something little it's never just about that one thing, it's about all the little things that piled up over your time together.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

I work in software development making hot fixes for our customers, so I know what it is like to be under pressure from a deadline. That said, it doesn't matter how busy they are working on fixes, the estimate of the end of the month was given for the patch. They don't have to be active in the forums to know that they missed that deadline. In which case they should of stopped by the forums to just post a quick message that it's probably going to be X amount of time longer. At the company I work for they are real strict about deadlines and if we think we are not going to have the patch ready in time we give an update to the customer.

One of the worst PR moves you can do is promise something on a curtain deadline and then miss that deadline with no response. Missing a deadline is fine if you notify the customers a day or two before, or however soon you realize that it's near impossible to reach given the remaining time. Even though the patch may come and the customer is pleased for the moment there is still that lingering feeling that they were treated without any care. And in the longer run that feeling can build up in customer dissatisfaction to the point that they simply throw their hands up and leave.

It's a lot like dating for those of you who are old enough. When your girl friend gets mad over something little it's never just about that one thing, it's about all the little things that piled up over your time together.

Thank you for your enlightening comments. Im sure that when the developers are ready to post, they will do.

 

[Gort11]

I'd sooner have multiplayer come out later but actually work, as opposed to Civilization 5 which had multiplayer since release but it's impossible to finish a game because of constant disconnects. Check out this fun thread here!

Hundreds of posts of people who can't get the multiplayer to work. That's why I'm hyped for Warlock's multiplayer - I'm hoping that it'll scratch the same itch as Civ 5 MP would, but without constant technical difficulties.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

We are planning big update on the end of this month.

Hmmm, planning is different from actually having a deadline of that date.

I do agree it would have been kind to inform us though...

 

[unmerged(170187)]

Hmmm, planning is different from actually having a deadline of that date.

I do agree it would have been kind to inform us though...

Planning is the setting of a deadline. It's a self imposed deadline but it's still one. If you keep those plans to yourself then no one knows if you missed the deadline as they don't know it existed. If you tell people what your planning then they expect that from you thus giving the deadline even more weight.

And yea a simple, probably be a another week or two post would be nice. Or even if it's going be another month it's nice to know. When left to their own devices Fans tend to assume the worst and in some cases will simply leave, and possible never return. The longer it goes without word the more speculation runs rampant. Are they actually still working on it? Are they having internal issues so things are delayed? And so on. Many times lack of communication from a company about missed deadlines means trouble at the company.

There is a fine line between promising to much and not saying anything at all. But over the years I've noticed studios who tend to do better are the ones who actually talk to their fans. That is smaller studios do better when they engage their fans, unlike the corperate mega giants such as EA, Ubisoft, and Activision who have so much extra cash laying around they act seem to actively piss off their fans for amusement.

 

[unmerged(83282)]

[The developers] don't have to be active in the forums to know that they missed that deadline. In which case they should of stopped by the forums to just post a quick message that it's probably going to be X amount of time longer.

Even though I respect the developers' cautious hard-work in what concerns the release of a relatively bug-free update -- a responsible caution which justifies delays -- I find Spyre2000's "quick message" request very reasonable.

Maybe the devs are shy? You know what Russians are like. Send them some vodka...

I certainly will not ship Russian vodka which has been bottled here, in Canada, to Russia -- the land of the 2nd best vodka on the planet (#1 being Sweden's).

 

[unmerged(15561)]

I certainly will not ship Russian vodka which has been bottled here, in Canada, to Russia -- the land of the 2nd best vodka on the planet (#1 being Sweden's).

Quite... probably a good idea not to. Well until they finish coding & testing.

 

[unmerged(485425)]

When left to their own devices Fans tend to assume the worst and in some cases will simply leave, and possible never return. The longer it goes without word the more speculation runs rampant.

This is the key. Many people don't mind if a patch slides as they are occupied with other things so it is not on their mind. An equal number (it seems) are so keen they will check many times a day so when things are delayed they feel it acutely and then speculation does indeed run rampant and gets negative very quickly, too quickly imho.

However I agree a quick one or two line message from the developer mentioning how things stand is not an unreasonable request. If I was them I would have a thread they posted in that no one else could post in; people do miss the messages they leave in the midst of many other user messages.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Heh, when working on a mod of mine I mentioned "I certainly hope it will be done by christmas"... I am still working on it.
So planning and actually happening are 2 very seperate things. And it's also why I don't give estimates anymore

I'm just playing other games. No point fretting over it. I'll be back when the patch is there for my next run. Wheter it's today or over a month doesn't matter, got enough backlog games to play. Or old games that could use a second run... etc.

 

[GamingFather]

I certainly will not ship Russian vodka which has been bottled here, in Canada, to Russia -- the land of the 2nd best vodka on the planet (#1 being Sweden's).

Sweden having the best Vodka?? What have you been drinking?? Not to derail the discussion too much, but the next time you travel ask for Lithuanian Gold and meet your new master

 

[marianojoey]

I agree with many of you in many of the posts... I already said I like the idea of more Lords, if they are like the 2 we already have (but with other powers and stuff... an undead lord would be cool).

I LOVED the ideas from Spyre (great post). Hope you posted it in the Ideas official post, but I really don't read it since page 13 (not like there's been a lot of new ideas, just the same 5 or 6 things posted by another person).

I don't fully agree with Valishael about the RPG elements. RPG was born on this kind of games, back in the '70s, so they are not so far off, and in Warlock we already have plenty RPG as in units gaining XP, and leveling up to get Perks, and getting "upgrades" in the form of extra training/equipment. I DO agree with you that the option should exist to turn on/off several things in the game (this one I'd do on, but some victory conditions would be off)...

I really don't care about Online MP, only hope it has HotSeat. Not LAN, but real HotSeat.

Finally, I stopped playing the game about 2 weeks ago, since I'm waiting for the patch. But probably start playing again after it.

BTW, initially, the devs said they had the idea of getting the patch running for the end of July, probably August, so it isn't like they "failed" the deadline (no deadline to me, have enough games to play to keep me occupied for a decade). Also, that MP and Heroes was a patch, NOT a DLC. Now, changing THAT would piss me off...

 

[Gort11]

Yeah, it's tough when a game you like has a big patch coming. You COULD play it now, but it'll be so much better in just a day or two...

 

[unmerged(170187)]

i loved the ideas from spyre (great post). hope you posted it in the ideas official post, but i really don't read it since page 13 (not like there's been a lot of new ideas, just the same 5 or 6 things posted by another person).

Most of them I have posted already in the suggestion thread though they are scattered across several post. A few were new, like Temple units rebeling because in later games I figured out how to train whatever combination of Temple units I wanted regardless of standings. I just now went ahead and posted the list in the suggestion thread though just in case they missed it here.

I don't fully agree with valishael about the rpg elements. Rpg was born on this kind of games, back in the '70s, so they are not so far off, and in warlock we already have plenty rpg as in units gaining xp, and leveling up to get perks, and getting "upgrades" in the form of extra training/equipment.

Actually this proves my point even more on the Tactics vs Strategy. RPGs were born from the large scale table top war games, where you had whole armies of different unit types. The units already had unique stats that made them strong against curtain types of units. But as some people craved more detail the game shifted from being about armies to being about smaller specialized squads. As the amount of detail you put into each unit increased the number of units decreased and the game became more about tactics than an overall battlefield strategy.

After playing a game where I decided to test out the IMP Adviser I found the idea of Hero units even less appealing. The reason is the Imp Adviser is a single unit you can get for the cost of several trait points. If he dies you are stuck without him and it's not that hard for him to die. He only has 30 HP, which sounds like a lot but the thing is he has no Melee/Missle resistances which makes him very squishy. He has a nice AoE spells which is not something you can not get until much later in the game normally.

The problem with him is it becomes more focused on being just about him. With the Imp in play at the start of the game his AoE has the ability to seriously damage whole armies and thus he was very important. But as the game progressed into Mid-Tier units he did not do as much and was at much higher risk of dying from stronger attacks now in play, so he sat back and wasn't able to do as much.

The point of this is that given that Heroes would be a unique unit by their very nature it begs the question how do they stand out in a wargame? Well either they are kind of like the imp in that they have some special ability that makes them useful, In which case it's more about the ability and simply getting the Hero in place to use it. The other option is the Hero unit is stronger than other units, in which case it simply becomes a +1 Temple unit.

This is why units with RPG elements in wargames eventually shifted to a small scale tactical game as the amount of detail in them increased. No one wanted to spend several minutes designing a cool officer character only to have the enemy take him out in a lucky roll with the opening salvo. Also the units need to stay balanced in terms of the larger game and it was very difficult to balance them against whole armies while trying to make them feel very unique.

In closing I refer back to my post on Strategy vs Tactics. Even though RPG were born from wargames they are two very different hobbies. And while there is some cross over in the fans there are people who clearly prefer one type of game over the other. Most people who have played a lot of wargames can tell you the difficulty in finding a balanced unique character that is actually worth it's cost. Most tend to stick with rank and file units of the game to avoid the hassle. And the reverse is true of RPGs as DMs will tell you the difficultly of trying to simulate a large scale battle where the players would actually stand a chance, because even weak monsters in large enough numbers could kill the players.

 

[player1 fanatic]

And lords will differ from this how?
Just naming unit lord doesn't make it RPG mechanic neither.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

I'm afraid I don't understand the argument that upgrading and perking up units is an RPG mechanic.

But apparently the upgrading and perking up of a unit named "lord" is... which we all don't understand... :/

 

[Hassat Hunter]

That's a straw man, because you know full well that units aren't intended to work in the same way as lords. If they were identical to lords, I would be arguing for their inclusion, not against it.

"Thanks a lot for your thoughts! I think we now have our vision about Units and Perks. We decided that we want it to be more MOM-style, so every unit will be separate unit with his own perks and powers."

So, that's how they differ. And that's RPG mechanics.