Developer Diary 9 – Diplomacy

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King

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Well the Paradox Convention is over so it is back to a more regular working schedule and where would be without a weekly developer diary? So this week let’s touch on diplomacy.

When thinking a bit about diplomacy it is probably the game system that has changed the least from the days of EU1. Part of the reason is that it is a very solid and adaptable diplomatic system. So for inter-country relations at a base level you are going to see a system that bares a remarkable resemblance to what you have seen before.

For those of you who are not to familiar with the system it works something like this. Between each country is a relation value of –200 to +200 which represents how much they like each other. Diplomatic and in game actions shift this relationship around and then this will feed into AI calculations of what it will do. To put it in a nut shell diplomacy is from one country to another.

Which to a certain extend does capture part of what diplomacy is, however we felt we could do more with diplomacy so we added two additional features, one I will talk about in a bit more detail and one I will talk a little about because it will be important for a later developer diary.

First up is War and Peace, not the epic book by Tolstoy (which I am yet to finish) but instead how we make peace after war. The two problems we have is the AI offering you peace deals you don’t want and secondly trying to figure out what the AI wants. Peace negotiation is less fun than it could be. Enter Heir to the Throne and the war goal system. Now this is interesting, when you declare war you announce your goal, I can see some potential with this system.

So we start with the war goals system but we are going to make some changes. Firstly your war goal is your peace option, if you go to war to protect Turkey then this what you can ask for at the peace table, no more than this. Secondly though you can add more war goals as the war progresses, although this does affect your POPs. Thirdly failure to achieve a war goal will increase POP militancy so just adding more goals to increase peace options is not a no brainer. Thus when it comes to the peace resolutions you will know what your opponent wants and your opponent will know what you want. Then it is up to you to decide if you are going to give in or pursue victory.

However this also creates two kinds of wars, those wars were countries pursue very limited goals because they do not wish to upset the home front and total wars were they county gambles all and knows that failure to win could lead to revolution. Which we feel captures warfare in the period very well. While I go on about warfare I would just like to add that colonial wars are out. They never worked well anyway to be honest and did not fit the period. We have a new system to simulate colonial skirmishes that I will talk about in a later developer diary.

The next part I will touch briefly on, because it forms part of another subject for a later developer diary. We are going to talk later on about why you want to be a Great Power and why you should be willing to fight to remain one. One of the reasons is that Great Powers get special diplomatic options not available to other countries. Now I am not going to go into to much depth here, but they do depart a little from our current system and that I do want to mention. Great Powers do not just influence how a country sees them; they have the added ability to use their influence on other countries to change their perception of other Great Powers. The struggle for influence that the Great Power wage around the world is not a simple bilateral basis but also with each other inside countries, giving an added dimension to diplomacy which was not present before.

So that’s the basics of diplomacy, we are back on a regular schedule so there will be another next week.
 

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This sounds great. How do war goals become available though? Are there categories, like 'preserve balance of power', etc? We're going to really have to plan wars out in advance rather than just hoping for the best...

No screenshot?
 

King

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This sounds great. How do war goals become available though? Are there categories, like 'preserve balance of power', etc? We're going to really have to plan wars out in advance rather than just hoping for the best...

No screenshot?

No screenshot because our artists were ill this week.

Regarding war goals we are in a work in progress at the moment. We are looking to expand the list, but these are not abstract goals like preserve the balance of power, what will a country give up in peace if they do that? It is things like transfer terrortry, pay money, reduce prestige, reduce troops. Because these have clear effects.
 

Sute]{h

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I like the dynamic war goals. I wonder if adding war goals should have international repercussions as well as internals ones though. Adding war goals as you go along with the war should be frowned upon by the international community. Otherwise someone winning a war could just add loads of war goals. I suggest that adding a war goal should give BB points AND lower relations with every country that has a good relation (150+) with your target.
 

MannheimCouncil

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The improvements on the war goal system sound very enticing. They're also a huge leap in realism, especially the effect on pos. Weimar Germany here we come ;)

Altering perceptions of other countries also sounds good. However, I was hoping for some more depth to diplomacy systems like actions speaking louder than words. For example, allying to a country's long-standing enemy should lower relations as should having a completely opposed political system. Any chance of something like that?

Also: How will the European Concert of powers be modelled? Balance of power was a big thing in the 19th century.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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No screenshot because our artists were ill this week.

Regarding war goals we are in a work in progress at the moment. We are looking to expand the list, but these are not abstract goals like preserve the balance of power, what will a country give up in peace if they do that? It is things like transfer terrortry, pay money, reduce prestige, reduce troops. Because these have clear effects.

Ah, I see. Could adding goals on itself bring other countries into a war? Like, lets say I'm Germany, at war with France, initially to reduce prestige, but thenI decide to take territory, could the AI UK decide to come in on France's side to even things up (this is sort of what I mean as in preserve blanace of power)?
 

King

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Ah, I see. Could adding goals on itself bring other countries into a war? Like, lets say I'm Germany, at war with France, initially to reduce prestige, but thenI decide to take territory, could the AI UK decide to come in on France's side to even things up (this is sort of what I mean as in preserve blanace of power)?

The AI isn't done yet.
 

Emp_Palpatine

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So we start with the war goals system but we are going to make some changes. Firstly your war goal is your peace option, if you go to war to protect Turkey then this what you can ask for at the peace table, no more than this. Secondly though you can add more war goals as the war progresses, although this does affect your POPs. Thirdly failure to achieve a war goal will increase POP militancy so just adding more goals to increase peace options is not a no brainer. Thus when it comes to the peace resolutions you will know what your opponent wants and your opponent will know what you want. Then it is up to you to decide if you are going to give in or pursue victory.

Sweet!

However this also creates two kinds of wars, those wars were countries pursue very limited goals because they do not wish to upset the home front and total wars were they county gambles all and knows that failure to win could lead to revolution. Which we feel captures warfare in the period very well. While I go on about warfare I would just like to add that colonial wars are out. They never worked well anyway to be honest and did not fit the period. We have a new system to simulate colonial skirmishes that I will talk about in a later developer diary.
Sic Semper colonialis belli! :D
Good news, and so far I must say very interesting system.
It seems the diplomatic system is deepening, and Me likes it!


Questions:
- Let's say I'm Ottoman Empire and Russia declares a limited -or whatever the in game name- war on me. Will I (or they) have the possibility to declare a total war upon war declaration reception or during the course of the war?
Sort of "levée en masse"/"Total war it is" decision or diplomatic option?
And will the agressor have such and option?

- Will total war be available upon certain dates (let's say late 19th)? Or upon certain ideological inventions? Or between some sorts of government and others?
And will the peace, satellisation -change of government- and annexations rules be differents?
 

Mendeth

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Sounds interesting. Is multilateral diplomacy going to be covered through the Great Powers system? The Congress of Vienna and the League of Nations were both important landmarks in the foundation for multilateral diplomacy and both are within the timespan of V2, so will they be represented?
 

King

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Sweet!


Sic Semper colonialis belli! :D
Good news, and so far I must say very interesting system.
It seems the diplomatic system is deepening, and Me likes it!


Questions:
- Let's say I'm Ottoman Empire and Russia declares a limited -or whatever the in game name- war on me. Will I (or they) have the possibility to declare a total war upon war declaration reception or during the course of the war?
Sort of "levée en masse"/"Total war it is" decision or diplomatic option?
And will the agressor have such and option?

- Will total war be available upon certain dates (let's say late 19th)? Or upon certain ideological inventions? Or between some sorts of government and others?
And will the peace, satellisation -change of government- and annexations rules be differents?

There is no distinction between limited and total wars, there are just wars. The only difference between limited and total wars is how far the participants are willing to expand thier war gaols once war starts.
 

King

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Sounds interesting. Is multilateral diplomacy going to be covered through the Great Powers system? The Congress of Vienna and the League of Nations were both important landmarks in the foundation for multilateral diplomacy and both are within the timespan of V2, so will they be represented?

No
 

Erispoe

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If you add war goals, does they decrease war exhaustion ? The best way to calm down population during long war is to add new promises for the peace. Is this effect implemented ?
 

King

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If you add war goals, does they decrease war exhaustion ? The best way to calm down population during long war is to add new promises for the peace. Is this effect implemented ?

No they don't, the best way to clam down your population is win the war.
 

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The one question that I want to get answered is whether it will be possible to sign a peace of Versailles (I.E punishing a country very hard without holding any of their territory but their war exhaustion is through the roof)?
 

RedRalphWiggum

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The one question that I want to get answered is whether it will be possible to sign a peace of Versailles (I.E punishing a country very hard without holding any of their territory but their war exhaustion is through the roof)?

I hope so. WE should be weighted to count for war score in V2, as was often the case in the period.
 

King

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The one question that I want to get answered is whether it will be possible to sign a peace of Versailles (I.E punishing a country very hard without holding any of their territory but their war exhaustion is through the roof)?

It is possible. Therei s no requirement for the war goals to be acheived. I.e. if you go to war to claim a colony you don't actually have to hold it to get that war goal in a peace.
 

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Does this mean that it's possible to annex nations with more than 3 provinces? Can you take the capitol without annexing them?

And most importantly: are there still war goals that can't be accomplished no matter how much you kicked your enemies arse?

EDIT: first page jippi!
 

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It is possible. Therei s no requirement for the war goals to be acheived. I.e. if you go to war to claim a colony you don't actually have to hold it to get that war goal in a peace.

So if their WE is at 100% but I don't actually hold any of their territory, they will be prepared to sign peace? Neat! :)
 

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Does this mean that it's possible to annex nations with more than 3 provinces? Can you take the capitol without annexing them?

And most importantly: are there still war goals that can't be accomplished no matter how much you kicked your enemies arse?

EDIT: first page jippi!

Annexation is a specific war goal which is only available under certain circumstances. However war goals are just peace options, the enemy is under no obligation to accept any of your war goals. If you are using warfare as a continuation of policy it is upto you to make sure that your military forces have convinced your enemy to accept your goals. Otherwise the war continues or you have to settle for less and take the hit for it.
 

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