Developer Diary 8 – The Artisan
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This was awesome and a very good progress towards a more balanced and dynamic civ-unciv system.
Also a note, Germany was a nation where the average german owned his own home business thus this makes sense.
Also a note, Germany was a nation where the average german owned his own home business thus this makes sense.
More my understanding of society, but I could understand if Adam Smith felt the need to steal some of my great ideas.
This sounds pretty sweet!
And the pic is too awesome for words. The Ottomans will rise again!
And the pic is too awesome for words. The Ottomans will rise again!
Well I've finally caught up with everything that's happened in the last few weeks, and I must say I'm impressed with the artisan as a concept. Great work 
Economic ideas
My dear Paradox!
Please check the ideas to inject into Vici 2 more complicated economic system:
* We want good banking and loan system to POPs (they will be able to buy more goods! capitalists will be able to build more! People needs in loans - its just like a blood for industry)
* We want strong system of finance and regulation: State loan/credit taken from capiatalists and from other POPs. State should be able to release stocks and bonds (its very very important!)
* Internation market of debt. It was a very strange for me (Victoria1) to know who (and why) gave me money when I have not had it. If i release bonds to the World Market I know who buy it. Who is my creditor. Its a huge helping to Diplomacy. Almost infinite number of Diplomacy variants. Is my creditor are foreign state or maybe private British fund or my own people? That is a question! But who is my debtor? Why to war if I can to BUY! (Remember Crimeа War 1853? Why England helped to Osmans? Cause it was debtor! They have been obliged to protect the investments)
* Financial regulations: refinancing rate - fight with inflation. Protective duty(tariff) on a separate kind of the goods - help to our home manufacturer, bad to our citizens.
* Quality of goods: several grades of quality and popularity. Who care that Nord Korea and Iran make many many cars? We buy them only in Germary, Japane and Sweden.
* Critical term - private proterty. Its a first reason of socialistics revolutions. Who is owner of a factorys,mines,ore,farms - State or capitalist? Capitalist? Letz start nationalization! Motherland needs in money sun! Why you take gun?
* We want more possibilities for improvement of a provinces infrastructure. Big money or dictator orders or patriotic hopes or religion extasy can induce people to build cities in Siberia (it was real, but it wasnt in Vici1)
little addition
*We want to sponsor various political party of enemy and friendly countries! Lets agents do their dirty work.
sorry for big posting. you certainly say, its very difficul to play this. But you can set "auto" option to ecomomy if you are John Rembo or Horacio Nelson.
at least look at couple ideas)
Thanks my dear Paradox! I love you.
My dear Paradox!
Please check the ideas to inject into Vici 2 more complicated economic system:
* We want good banking and loan system to POPs (they will be able to buy more goods! capitalists will be able to build more! People needs in loans - its just like a blood for industry)
* We want strong system of finance and regulation: State loan/credit taken from capiatalists and from other POPs. State should be able to release stocks and bonds (its very very important!)
* Internation market of debt. It was a very strange for me (Victoria1) to know who (and why) gave me money when I have not had it. If i release bonds to the World Market I know who buy it. Who is my creditor. Its a huge helping to Diplomacy. Almost infinite number of Diplomacy variants. Is my creditor are foreign state or maybe private British fund or my own people? That is a question! But who is my debtor? Why to war if I can to BUY! (Remember Crimeа War 1853? Why England helped to Osmans? Cause it was debtor! They have been obliged to protect the investments)
* Financial regulations: refinancing rate - fight with inflation. Protective duty(tariff) on a separate kind of the goods - help to our home manufacturer, bad to our citizens.
* Quality of goods: several grades of quality and popularity. Who care that Nord Korea and Iran make many many cars? We buy them only in Germary, Japane and Sweden.
* Critical term - private proterty. Its a first reason of socialistics revolutions. Who is owner of a factorys,mines,ore,farms - State or capitalist? Capitalist? Letz start nationalization! Motherland needs in money sun! Why you take gun?
* We want more possibilities for improvement of a provinces infrastructure. Big money or dictator orders or patriotic hopes or religion extasy can induce people to build cities in Siberia (it was real, but it wasnt in Vici1)
little addition
*We want to sponsor various political party of enemy and friendly countries! Lets agents do their dirty work.
sorry for big posting. you certainly say, its very difficul to play this. But you can set "auto" option to ecomomy if you are John Rembo or Horacio Nelson.
at least look at couple ideas)
Thanks my dear Paradox! I love you.
As I understood it in Vic1 it was rather a public debt. But I do agree, possibility of foreign debt should be added - as a tool of diplomatic rather then economic polisy.
Debt and finance is abstracted in V1 as tech and inventions and it really looks like that is the case in V2 too. So they are going to be efficiency increases of your economy as a whole or more income for certain pops (prime candidates are capis of course).
But as we have seen there is a national bank in V2, and who knows what it's doing exactly.
But as we have seen there is a national bank in V2, and who knows what it's doing exactly.
What about some goods, like luxury furniture & luxury clothes, maybe even luxury cars or added later, that can be only manufactured by artisans, so a small number of them will still exist in 1936? Also, the cost of those products when finished should be really high, as in real life, compared to normal clothes/furniture/cars. Also, add a small modifier that adds to the efficiency of artisans that produce the same goods for succesive months. something small, like 0.01% per month, so that an artisan producing the same goods for 2 months would be more efficient than someone new.
well to keep artisans alive past the turn of the century, it would be simpler to have people buy all the artisans goods first before they buy factory made ones (even if it might cost a tad more on the cpu cycles to do) but as to the luxury items, yes it would be nice to have 'artisan only' items and the small modifier to the efficiency but i think that the artisans would be able to keep most heavy industry out of that sphere all by themselves due to the general low demand on luxury items and the possibility of high supply from the artisan class, if what i have understood so far is correct...
Way too unrealistic.
No really, artisans should have the hard time. They take risk and must compete with factories. The best model here is simple statistics. Some percentage must go bankrupt, some continue and few of them move up. The reason for them to stay or move up should be unique quality of their product. But why making the system too complex, when simple percentage based on some basic factors would do the same job? You don't need to include every single customer and his individual budget line with indifference curve (demand function) to simulate market.
Judging from V1 economics, I don't think that artisans will struggle to sell their products in a gameplay sense. Actually they will sell everything they make all the time. Factories will eventually be much more efficient though, and the wider world mass production will dump the prices. The artisans, producing only few units of a good will get less and less until they either stop or they find another good to make. The factories on the other hand will compete with each other internationally too.
Tariffs won't change that actually, since domestic prices are the same as WM prices. Only indirectly you can take in the tariff money and subsidize artisans by lowering their taxes, with the added complication that you are going to subsidize the whole lower/poor class.
Artisans have to cash in on innovation. Obviously when a new product is invented, they will be the first to produce it, while the demand might be high, so there is their chance. They must keep inventing (yeah it's the artisans who tinker around and make the inventions in their shops).
Tariffs won't change that actually, since domestic prices are the same as WM prices. Only indirectly you can take in the tariff money and subsidize artisans by lowering their taxes, with the added complication that you are going to subsidize the whole lower/poor class.
Artisans have to cash in on innovation. Obviously when a new product is invented, they will be the first to produce it, while the demand might be high, so there is their chance. They must keep inventing (yeah it's the artisans who tinker around and make the inventions in their shops).
Yes and often the first Artisans to start producing a new good will make enough money to become capitalists while the remaining Artisans also get a slight boost from less competition but eventually most nations will have Artisan class shrink in size thru both evolution and devolution with only nations that simply had massive starting size Artisan class like China perhaps would have large numbers left by the end of the game time line.
The interesting question is with the new supply mechanics if there will be many poor or negative prestige nations unable to get goods from the WM for any lengths of time... that would give Artisan class a significant boost.
I think it would depend on how many seperate artisan POPs the country had, and how big they are / how much they produce. Bali and Hawaii would be in trouble, but Korea, Japan, and China might well be self sufficient in most ways. Not so much India, which is divvied up into smaller pieces.
Wonder how many artisans South American countries will have.
Another thing I wonder is if there are the same gross number of POPs, how many farmers and laborers from V1 will be turned into Artisans and Bureaucrats to keep population numbers the same.
Not many bureaucrats at all initially probably. More come with technology and spending.
The Artisans I wonder about as well... because then the first thing many players would do is try and force migrate the laborers to the best RGO and more dense population which grows much faster but which could cause problems with the Artisans depending how many they are and if they can buy goods from internal market before WM.
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