Developer Diary 8 – The Artisan

Developer Diary 8 – The Artisan

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King

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Well after last weeks rather short effort let’s go for something with a little meat in it. The Victoria economic system was very good at simulating large-scale capitalism but there was no small scale manufacturing or pre industrial economies. Our solution is the Artisan.

The Artisan POP acts a bit like a factory; it buys goods of the market and makes things to sell. However, unlike a factory the Artisan is not tied into making a single good, instead every month it will pick a good to make, if last month’s good made money it will be more likely to make the same good again. The Artisan can always make a small number of goods but after that it is limited by your technology, so if you don’t have the radio, the Artisan won’t make one. However Artisans do not gain efficiency via technology, so on a long enough time line factories will always be more competitive and if supply rises fast enough they will force Artisans out of that niche. As a final point Artisans who do very well will consider becoming capitalists, while Artisans who lose lots of money start becoming labourers and craftsmen.

Sounds all rather simple, however here are some neat consequences; firstly we can give any country a manufacturing capacity without giving them factories. If we take a country like China, in 1830 it had something like 30% of the global manufacturing capacity, but it was very inefficient and what should happen is factories in more advanced part of the world should gradually force these guys out of business. Thus we can simulate the de-industrialisation of Asia during the period.

The second thing Artisans supply is bridging in the world market, if there are not enough factories producing an item to meet demand the Artisans can step in to top up production making sure that there is enough of a good available for people to buy. This allows the market to function more effectively and efficiently and also make it much more responsive to POP’s demands.

However my favourite effect that Artisans have is when a new invention appears. Back in Victoria Revolutions you then had to sit around for years for a Capitalist to get round to building a new factory. Well no longer, now the Artisans can step up to the breach straight away. Producing small numbers until the Capitalists get round to starting mass production. This for me adds two cool effects; obviously we have the Artisan bridging effect, which I mentioned in the previous paragraph. However, the best effect for me is that it adds more realism to the economic system. With the invention of the Motor Car, Henry Ford didn’t suddenly hit on the idea of let’s build a huge factory in Detroit. Cars were first produced in small workshops, a market was created and then the factories started to appear.

Politically Artisans have a certain attraction to fascism. In our vision of the game they are the classic losers in the game of Capitalism. The Capitalists are steadily putting them out of business and the benefits like minimum wages that the lower classes win do not apply to them as they are working for themselves. The Ideology of fascism with its simple answers will appeal to them more strongly. Countries than manage to keep a strong artisan class will therefore be more susceptible to fascism.

So there we have the Artisan class. It improves the world market functionality and adds something to the politics, while adding greater realism in economic development. No developer dairy next week as we have a press event on, so keep an eye on the game sites for news about Victoria 2.
 

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Very intresting approach.

And that is a nice looking coastline!
 

RedRalphWiggum

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The Artisan POP acts a bit like a factory; it buys goods of the market and makes things to sell. However, unlike a factory the Artisan is not tied into making a single good, instead every month it will pick a good to make, if last month’s good made money it will be more likely to make the same good again. The Artisan can always make a small number of goods but after that it is limited by your technology, so if you don’t have the radio, the Artisan won’t make one. However Artisans do not gain efficiency via technology, so on a long enough time line factories will always be more competitive and if supply rises fast enough they will force Artisans out of that niche. As a final point Artisans who do very well will consider becoming capitalists, while Artisans who lose lots of money start becoming labourers and craftsmen.
Do they buy their own resources from the world market or does the state need to secure them?

Sounds all rather simple, however here are some neat consequences; firstly we can give any country a manufacturing capacity without giving them factories. If we take a country like China, in 1830 it had something like 30% of the global manufacturing capacity, but it was very inefficient and what should happen is factories in more advanced part of the world should gradually force these guys out of business. Thus we can simulate the de-industrialisation of Asia during the period.
Excellent. This will make the whole industrialisation process more realistic and fair... even the playing field to start with but make the challenge progrivviely steeper.

However my favourite effect that Artisans have is when a new invention appears. Back in Victoria Revolutions you then had to sit around for years for a Capitalist to get round to building a new factory. Well no longer, now the Artisans can step up to the breach straight away. Producing small numbers until the Capitalists get round to starting mass production. This for me adds two cool effects; obviously we have the Artisan bridging effect, which I mentioned in the previous paragraph. However, the best effect for me is that it adds more realism to the economic system. With the invention of the Motor Car, Henry Ford didn’t suddenly hit on the idea of let’s build a huge factory in Detroit. Cars were first produced in small workshops, a market was created and then the factories started to appear.
Can they produce all goods? Even ships and artillery and things?

Politically Artisans have a certain attraction to fascism. In our vision of the game they are the classic losers in the game of Capitalism. The Capitalists are steadily putting them out of business and the benefits like minimum wages that the lower classes win do not apply to them as they are working for themselves. The Ideology of fascism with its simple answers will appeal to them more strongly. Countries than manage to keep a strong artisan class will therefore be more susceptible to fascism.
Hmm... I can see South America going fascist. As well as East Asia...

So there we have the Artisan class. It improves the world market functionality and adds something to the politics, while adding greater realism in economic development. No developer dairy next week as we have a press event on, so keep an eye on the game sites for news about Victoria 2.
Game sites?
 

King

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Do they buy their own resources from the world market or does the state need to secure them?



Excellent. This will make the whole industrialisation process more realistic and fair... even the playing field to start with but make the challenge progrivviely steeper.



Can they produce all goods? Even ships and artillery and things?



Hmm... I can see South America going fascist. As well as East Asia...



Game sites?
They buy thier own resources. They can produce any good that you can, so even countreis that do not hav ehuge armanets industries can still prodcue a small amount of guns. I am not sure who is coming along to the event so I can't say which sites.
 

unmerged(21215)

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Oh I don't like this system of hardcoding different classes to different ideologies. It's not like 1930-40s Germany was one of the least industrialised countries in the world.

Perhaps more factors than population composition should determine the political course of a nation? E.g. a bitter but industrialized Germany could go fascist.. ? And a middle class + capitalist class fearing communism too could change from liberalism to fascism, if the conditions are "right"?

But I really like the idea of artisans. Great work :)
 

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Is there a way to control or influence what goods they produce? So that uncivilized nations can pay them money to have vital goods that are needed getting produced without having to import or build an expensive factory?
 

King

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Oh I don't like this system of hardcoding different classes to different ideologies. It's not like 1930-40s Germany was one of the least industrialised countries in the world.

Perhaps more factors than population composition should determine the political course of a nation? E.g. a bitter but industrialized Germany could go fascist.. ?

But I really like the idea of artisans. Great work :)
Who said anything about hard coding? I just said a certain attraction to fascism, it is not that they all of a sudden all become fascist. It just means that aristans are more likely to become fascist and if conditions are right do so more strongly.
 

King

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Is there a way to control or influence what goods they produce? So that uncivilized nations can pay them money to have vital goods that are needed getting produced without having to import or build an expensive factory?
No, they work for themselves.
 

Prussia

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Very nice DD and that's actually a pretty neat map of Greece and Asian minor. good job on this part :)
 

Van Diemen

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I really like the way the artisans have turned out. Indeed now also small countries still have the capability to make goods eventhough vastly more inefficient in comparison with the industries found in larger countries. Also maybe now getting machine parts early is not as difficult.
 

King

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I really like the way the artisans have turned out. Indeed now also small countries still have the capability to make goods eventhough in vastly more inefficient in comparison with the factories. Also maybe now getting machine parts early is not as difficult.
You will still need to the tech to make them.
 

Txini

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I suppose there'll be a decission to rename Turk Cities to Greek if Greeks (or Russian in Konstantinopolis) take them
 

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Oh I don't like this system of hardcoding different classes to different ideologies. It's not like 1930-40s Germany was one of the least industrialised countries in the world.
It sounds like this isn't hardcoded at all - rather, it simply turns out that way, because of how the minimum wage and other social projects work. Artisans get nothing out of socialism, so fascism in the game would appeal more to them. In reality, you can also add the fact that fascism was a throwback to the guild system - and artisans loved the guild system, obviously.

As for Germany, remember, Nazi Germany wasn't fascist at all. Hitler borrowed a few things from fascism (mainly the raised-hand greeting), but the national socialists were, in general... you know, national socialist. They were only marginally less left-wing than communists.
 

King

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It sounds like this isn't hardcoded at all - rather, it simply turns out that way, because of how the minimum wage and other social projects work. Artisans get nothing out of socialism, so fascism in the game would appeal more to them. In reality, you can also add the fact that fascism was a throwback to the guild system - and artisans loved the guild system, obviously.

As for Germany, remember, Nazi Germany wasn't fascist at all. Hitler borrowed a few things from fascism (mainly the raised-hand greeting), but the national socialists were, in general... you know, national socialist. They were only marginally less left-wing than communists.
Just assume that Nazis are fascist for the Victoria pruposes.
 

ashandresash

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Brilliant. Really.

Congratulations.

Just a question... I assume artisas are changing their needs monthly, depending on what are they producing (iron and coal if they want to produce steel, fruit and glass if they want wine...). Those needs are considered now a new type (life/everyday/luxury/x) or should it be included into everyday needs? I mean, needs will be so flexible in Vicky2? Awesome, if it's the case.
 

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As for Germany, remember, Nazi Germany wasn't fascist at all. Hitler borrowed a few things from fascism (mainly the raised-hand greeting), but the national socialists were, in general... you know, national socialist. They were only marginally less left-wing than communists.
Oh for Christ's sake...

anyway, as I stated in the tagline thread, many people cannot access gaming sites from work, and more importantly, I can't access gaming sites from work. Could info from the convention please be copied here too?
 

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Brilliant. Really.

Congratulations.

Just a question... I assume artisas are changing their needs monthly, depending on what are they producing (iron and coal if they want to produce steel, fruit and glass if they want wine...). Those needs are considered now a new type (life/everyday/luxury/x) or should it be included into everyday needs? I mean, needs will be so flexible in Vicky2? Awesome, if it's the case.
They will be buying the needed raw materials themselves, according to the diary.
 

Alex_brunius

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It sounds like this isn't hardcoded at all - rather, it simply turns out that way, because of how the minimum wage and other social projects work. Artisans get nothing out of socialism, so fascism in the game would appeal more to them. In reality, you can also add the fact that fascism was a throwback to the guild system - and artisans loved the guild system, obviously.
I agree, also remember that artisans with a job will be happy and not go around revolting. So you only really need to worry if you got large amount of unemployed artisans.

That would suggest a large industry present and feels spooky correct in the case of for example Japan, that had a huge artisan tradition and society being put out of work by Industries built through a painfully quick industrialisation process.
 

Van Diemen

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You will still need to the tech to make them.
That's true King, but at least if gaining tech in Victoria II is similar as in Victoria I (for the civilized countries), getting up to the point of making adequate amounts of machine parts will be less difficult than waiting for enough countries to have a machine parts factory. Indeed these artisans nicely fill in the gap.

BTW: When will artisans actually become unemployed? Can't they forever remain occupying a niche in which they can make a good profit?
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
Dec 7, 2001
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Brilliant. Really.

Congratulations.

Just a question... I assume artisas are changing their needs monthly, depending on what are they producing (iron and coal if they want to produce steel, fruit and glass if they want wine...). Those needs are considered now a new type (life/everyday/luxury/x) or should it be included into everyday needs? I mean, needs will be so flexible in Vicky2? Awesome, if it's the case.
They have two seperate purchases, first what they need to make stuff (top priority so the they can keep on earning) and then their life/everyday/luxury needs like ordinary POPs. If the second is not being satisfied they start ot change jobs.
 
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