Developer Diary 6 – What has Changed with Production and Unemployment

[unmerged(28220)]

Question about capitalists... are they like upper level management or like investors i.e. I have 5 factories in a province. I have 1 million craftsmen evenly divided among the factories and none work for two factories at once... I have 500k clerks evenly divided as well and I have 10k capitalists... would these capitalists be evenly divided as well or would they stay as a 10k mass providing a benefit to all factories?

 

[truth is life]

Someone's been playing with their revolution events...

Looks pretty good! Keep it up!

 

[JoeGiavani]

Question about capitalists... are they like upper level management or like investors i.e. I have 5 factories in a province. I have 1 million craftsmen evenly divided among the factories and none work for two factories at once... I have 500k clerks evenly divided as well and I have 10k capitalists... would these capitalists be evenly divided as well or would they stay as a 10k mass providing a benefit to all factories?

I'm pretty sure capis provide state-wide benefit, like in Vicky 1.

 

[Dark Knight]

No what it means is this. If I double the number of craftsmen I double the output of the factory. I also double the required inputs of the factory at the same time. We did argue about the this in the office, perhaps throughput would be more accurate term?

Since capitalists and clerks affect the quantity of inputs and outputs, for a doubling of craftsmen to result in a doubling of inputs and outputs doesn't there also need to be an increase in the number of capitalists and clerks?

 

[unmerged(181770)]

One a bit irrelevant question: I remember Balor's mentioned artisans, so I wonder where they work, and can they be promoted to clerks or craftmen?

 

[unmerged(71032)]

If you think back a couple of developer diaries we have our current fish crisis were there is simply not enough fish in the world. So we actually have far better supply and demand information available for both player and AI to use. We also want and need private sector bankrupcies to get the economy feeling right, so I am personally not concerned if there are bankrupcies. I will be concerned if the global economy instantly tanks.

Fair enough, I just hope you will still be able to achieve game with AI not having all that more bancrupcies then human player.

Realism in economy won't be the situation, where bancrupcies are limited only to AI or happen to AI twice as often as to the human.

 

[HMAS-Nameless]

veryy interesting Republic of Britainia so when a nation's political ideology changes does the name change too? how did the name change from the United Kingdom to Republic of Britainia? does each political party have its own country name or is it a revolter nation?

 

[King]

King, how will the differences in worker pay be modeled; some countries pay their workers less, so they can drive the cost of consumer goods down. However, some countries have better technology so they can drive the cost of goods down too. If I remember correctly, in the original victoria the output of goods gave more money because it increased production. For Vicky 2, couldn't you tie worker compensation to literacy values to offset the lower production, thus giving these factories more money.
This seems important now because factories need to supply themselves now, so an illiterate country or county can really hurt a developing country. I just think there needs to be balance between developed countries with higher technology vs undeveloped countries with lower tech but a cheaper workforce.

In Victoria Revolutions POP goods demand was not absolute but relative according to technology. We are going to keep that in Victoria 2, but change it a bit. However overall the more backward a country is the less goods you want to buy and thus the lower salary that makes you happy in your job. So although the factory earns less and pays less the workers will be happy to recieve less.

 

[King]

Factors cost cement...? How about machineparts? Steel? Timber? Duct tape?

If we need more/different good demand we will add them. That is a question of balance.

 

[King]

and how do capitalist appear in the first place?

This question will be answered in a later dev diary.

 

[King]

Two questions. You mentioned minimum wages increasing the cost of workers. Similarly, yet quite different, will other social reforms, specifically banning child labour and granting pensions, decrease efficiency, mark some pops as ineligible for work, or otherwise reflect that a smaller amount of people is now working?

Social reforms are now in nice plain text files meaning we can do lots of cool things with them. Here are a couple of examples of what we are using as start points. How many of these actually make the final cut is a different question all together but hopefully you will get an idea of the direction we are heading in.

		fourteen_hours = {
			factory_efficiency = -0.05
			poor_luxury_needs = -0.05
		}

		trinket_safety = {
			factory_maintenance = 0.25
			rich_everyday_needs = -0.05
			middle_everyday_needs = -0.05
			poor_everyday_needs = -0.05
		}

 

[King]

Since capitalists and clerks affect the quantity of inputs and outputs, for a doubling of craftsmen to result in a doubling of inputs and outputs doesn't there also need to be an increase in the number of capitalists and clerks?

No there is no need for that, but with in an increase in Capitalists and/or Clerks your factory becomes more productive leading to increased profits for everyone.

 

[Orinsul]

i'd just like to add that its brilliant to see the developers listening and responding to the questions and quibbles of the greater populace. shows a community spirit and makes our interest mean something too. And all that youre been saying is brilliant, hope one of youre team finds a time machine a flicks into the future gets the finished product and brings it back to now, saving us the wait and you lot all that work.

 

[Vricklund]

No there is no need for that, but with in an increase in Capitalists and/or Clerks your factory becomes more productive leading to increased profits for everyone.

Is the model really that stable? I mean, if I have more clerks/capis then the damand of input and output goods will fall, as there is now more of them. This would lower prices (probably more so on the output goods as the market for unrefined goods are likely larger than for the refined goods) and the factory would make less of a profit.

There are a bunch of pitfalls where you could create a negative spiral like this. If the market is not somehow artificially stabilized then you'll have your work cut out for you!

 

[King]

Is the model really that stable? I mean, if I have more clerks/capis then the damand of input and output goods will fall, as there is now more of them. This would lower prices (probably more so on the output goods as the market for unrefined goods are likely larger than for the refined goods) and the factory would make less of a profit.

There are a bunch of pitfalls where you could create a negative spiral like this. If the market is not somehow artificially stabilized then you'll have your work cut out for you!

Well overall I am not too concerned about this, prices did not fluctuate wildly in the 19th century the way they do today. So all we have to do make sure that prices on the world maket change slowly as well. This should prevent the negative sprial forming as people steadily drift to factories creating more demand for secondary goods, leading to increased demand for primary goods.

 

[Lloyien]

Is there a limit to the effectiveness of clerks and capitalists, dependent on the number of craftsmen working?

A rough example of what I'm talking about might be:

100 craftsmen = 10 coal (input), 1 cement (output)

100 craftsmen + 25 clerks = 10 coal (input), 1.25 cement (output)
100 craftsmen + 50 clerks = 10 coal (input), 1.33 cement (output)

100 craftsmen + 50 clerks + 25 capitalists = 8 coal (input), 1.33 cement (output)

Of course, these are just fictitious and very rough numbers to illustrate my point. If this is how it'll work, I'll be quite pleased.

 

[King]

Is there a limit to the effectiveness of clerks and capitalists, dependent on the number of craftsmen working?

A rough example of what I'm talking about might be:

100 craftsmen = 10 coal (input), 1 cement (output)

100 craftsmen + 25 clerks = 10 coal (input), 1.25 cement (output)
100 craftsmen + 50 clerks = 10 coal (input), 1.33 cement (output)

100 craftsmen + 50 clerks + 25 capitalists = 8 coal (input), 1.33 cement (output)

Of course, these are just fictitious and very rough numbers to illustrate my point. If this is how it'll work, I'll be quite pleased.

The exact form it takes will be the result of testing. At the moment we have the general idea of how the POPs should work. Then we move on to the precise way later.

 

[Taylor]

An interesting dev diary. Thanks King!

 

[Sam L]

Wow I'm loving the terrain and the map. Also, the name of the country and flag changes? That's excellent.

 

[safferli]

Since capitalists and clerks affect the quantity of inputs and outputs, for a doubling of craftsmen to result in a doubling of inputs and outputs doesn't there also need to be an increase in the number of capitalists and clerks?

You should think of as craftsmen working in the factory: they increase the effectiveness of a factory. Double the craftsmen, double the outputs (and the required inputs). Capitalists and clerks increase the factory's efficiency, so the craftsmen need less inputs for the same output, or generate more output from the same input. At least how I read the dairy. And that is a wonderful system!