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Developer Diary 5 – POPs, Bureaucrats and the Clergy

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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I do not like this concept very much.
Clergy should be as it was in Vicky, i dont see why you have to force it into a concept like that.

I am sure it is a very functional concept, but it it really lacks flavor.
EUIII was functional as well when it came out originally.
 
Christian I. said:
I am sure it is a very functional concept, but it it really lacks flavor.
EUIII was functional as well when it came out originally.
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And they fixed it...eventually. ;)
 
So clergy will be the only tool to raise literacy and at the same time they will lower consciousness.
Does this means that high literacy = low consciousness and low literacy = high counsciousness?
This runs against common sense...:(
 
I think you missed this:

We have decided to keep that but the Clergy’s role evolves a bit according to your government religious policy. If you are an atheist state, essentially the Clergy fulfil the role of the modern schoolteacher.
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So I'm guessing depending on your policy clergy could raise or lower consciousness.
 
Christian I. said:
I do not like this concept very much.
Clergy should be as it was in Vicky, i dont see why you have to force it into a concept like that.

I am sure it is a very functional concept, but it it really lacks flavor.
EUIII was functional as well when it came out originally.
Click to expand...
Fully agree with you. Old Vicky pops were pretty good as they were.
 
Christian I. said:
I am sure it is a very functional concept, but it it really lacks flavor.
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Rather that than some generic "Teacher" POP. At least the Clergy do something else.
 
Uh, can't really say I like abstracting this much in such a game that I love exactly because of its complexity in this area. Playing Victoria has its unique charm because it feels as if the citizens of the nations played are alive, rather than being mere resources to mine for warfare needs. I'm hoping that it'll be reconsidered during the development.
 
But this is no more abstracting than the magical education money-pit in V1. Back then you threw money into a pit, and it vanished, and people could read. Now the money goes somewhere.
 
EGaffney said:
But this is no more abstracting than the magical education money-pit in V1. Back then you threw money into a pit, and it vanished, and people could read. Now the money goes somewhere.
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You're right, that's inaccurate. In America at least, the way it works is that you throw money into a pit, it vanishes, and people can't read. So this new system won't be any more realistic really, I'm afraid.
 
Sure all is an abstraction in this game.

But i don't see why Buddhist monks, Muslim Preachers, Christian Clergy and Atheists with an ideology should be in one Clergy (or whatever you call it) POP.

I think the clergy deserves a POP of its own, no matter how useless it is, and it should not be useless for non-secularized/unciv. states, even in Europe the clergy should struggle for their influence, even the progressive forces see them as a relic of a darker past.

I see so much flavor possibilities in the role of the clergy, that is why i really have to post against this game mechanic.
 
It is probably too late to ask and get an answer here, but I will still try it. How will people percieve the taxation? Will they be thinking about nominal (how high you will set them) or real (how much you will actually collect) taxes? Those options make a huge diffenence.

I also like the clergy think. Even atheist states should have something like this. After all organized atheism IS kind of religion. And those new "clerics" of reformed world order can be essentially any other group of people based on the actual reasons why God or gods were abolished in the first place. Those new guys can be philosophers (teaching us how man is the only rational being or something like this), scientist (actively disproveing existence of any higher power) or sociologists (trying to create new order within society to make it function like living organism). Those ideas are very close to 19th century and I can't think if any better name to sumarize those people other than clergy. Great job!
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
Interesting - although if the clergy have been effectively changed to "educators" and paid out of the education slider, wouldn't it be better to rename them something like "intelligensia," which would include things like priests, scholars, experts, professional schoolteachers, doctors and the like, and thereby factor in the change from clerically-dominated to state-controlled education which was a big feature in the period?
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I'm late to this thread, but I definitely agree here. While I see a role for a "clergy" pop type in this game, I think an intelligentsia type more adequately reflects the functions described here (and would be a very interesting pop type in its own right, catering for technical experts and the educated elite, who are often politically powerful.)
 
King said:
...
Now I did say we would talk a bit more about the economic system of Victoria 2 in this developer dairy, and here we have it. Money does not just magically disappear in Victoria 2...
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But i guess it still magically appears. Would be nice if Vicky tried to model the driving force behind the hitorical occasions of the time period in question (the way money comes into existence, that is).
 
In Victoria 2 we will be recruiting POP's into bureaucrats until we get 100% efficiency?
Isn't this going to be unnecessarily complicated? Just convert 1000 people into Bureaucrats to get 100% efficiency?
 
Tekee said:
In Victoria 2 we will be recruiting POP's into bureaucrats until we get 100% efficiency?
Isn't this going to be unnecessarily complicated? Just convert 1000 people into Bureaucrats to get 100% efficiency?
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Well in one of the earlyier dev diarys they said you couldnt manuelly turn people into what you wanted, but you could offer them good wages and living conditions and they would slowly automatic transform into the pop class you needed.
 
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