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King

Part Time Game Designer
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Dec 7, 2001
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
Well, we looked through the thread on what you want to hear about and decided to go for civilisation.

“Uncivilised” nations are essentially those considered to be backward from the western perspective of the era. It may be a harsh, and some would say Euro-centric, but we make no apologies for that. Victoria 2 is trying to capture the zenith of European power. World War I would herald the decline of the European dominance of the world which began in the 15th century, so of course the game by its very nature is Euro-centric. This is the sort of choice you have to make when designing this type of game. It is simply impossible to capture everything, so you have to pick the things you believe to be most important.

Uncivilised nations can never be either great powers or powers of the second rank. Great Power status is very much how the Western World sees you. Even if you are rich and powerful, you are also just a bit backward, so you can never be a member of the elite club - or even the second team - if you are an uncivilised nation.

Uncivilised nations do not promote Capitalists, Clerks or Craftsmen and cannot build factories. They also research technologies at a slower rate than their civilised brethren. Essentially, uncivilised nations have a tough time of it in a world dominated by Western Powers.

However, all is not lost for the uncivilised nations. Every uncivilised country has a decision to allow them to civilise. We require a certain number of technologies, some prestige and enough of a military. Once you have reached those conditions the world considers you civilised and you can go about your merry way. There is no industrial score requirement, because industry score can only be gained from factories and uncivilised nations cannot build these.

Japan we treat as a special case. Not only did they civilise, but also they became one of the great powers. Thus, Japan has a special decision; the Meji Restoration. Japan gets a bigger boost from westernising and has lower requirements. It might seem a bit unfair to the other uncivilised nations, but we feel it will give more chance for a historical flow.

So there you have it, not all countries are equal, some are harder than others. Uncivilised nations are designed to be more challenging for the player, with Japan being a slightly easier country to play. Until then, Europe dominates the globe.
 

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Is there any difference in difficulty among uncivilized nations to achieve the prerequisites in order to civilize?

And, as opposed to the EU3 westernization decisions, there are no 'in between' steps?

With the exception of Japan no, everyone has a simple decision that will make you a member fo the civilised nation club. Japan has lower prequisits.
 
Will the uncivilized have more capacities at fighting western powers than in Vicky I ? Honestly in the first game it was impossible (or very difficult) to lose a war even against China when playing a Great Power ! Will it be harder now ?

How many wars did China win against great powers in the period?
 
That's true

What I meant was that China almost always ended split in several parts, not with the only small portions of territories they lost in reality, with only ports in the hands of European powers

It'll depend on which war goals people who attack China pick.
 
The need for a special event for Japan seems to me like an admission that the game doesn't really attempt to simulate the true causes of westernising (or failure to do so).

It's a eurocentric game
 
Any plans of giving civilization some flavour with an event chain or somesuch? Pushing a button and being done with it feels awfully sterile, even if we are being eurocentric here.

Internal turmoil, minor civil wars and flavour events, something to give the player the feeling that his entire nation has been uprooted and is being rebuilt among lines of modern western learning.

Are there any Bakumatsu related events at least? Even flavour ones?

Also, some kind of cooloff period would be nice, rather than instant change with decision, you could say Japan started civilizing in '60s and finished it in '80s.

There is an event series for the Unciv countries and interacting with the west. Bascially you can choose to the easier path to civilisation with greater internal turmoil or take the harder route but keep your people happier.
 
What is the size in pixels of the flag files in V2? I'd like to know because the flag of Japan is wrong for that period. Instead of moan about it, I'd like to change it myself. If I know the dimensions I could prepare a Historical Flags Mod for V2 and have it ready on the release date.

I'd be very grateful if you answered my somewhat OT request.

Something like 93x64, or there abouts.
 
did you consider the Meiji like reforms, like that of the Ottomans and the Persians ( i believe Vicky had a couple more). they might have not made it to the Japanese might, but they had the potential for it.

oh, and i have a question. what is that "simple decision" of the the uncivilized nations? will a decision pop up, or is it based on a series of events?

The decision exists as a potential for all uncivilised countries. So you know exactly what you have to do.
 
Since my question has drowned under OT during the midsummer holidays, I'd like to repeat it: is it possible to slip back to unciv due to e.g. reactionary rebellions?

no