Developer Diary 29 (part 2) – This time a real one

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

King

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Well, we looked through the thread on what you want to hear about and decided to go for civilisation.

“Uncivilised” nations are essentially those considered to be backward from the western perspective of the era. It may be a harsh, and some would say Euro-centric, but we make no apologies for that. Victoria 2 is trying to capture the zenith of European power. World War I would herald the decline of the European dominance of the world which began in the 15th century, so of course the game by its very nature is Euro-centric. This is the sort of choice you have to make when designing this type of game. It is simply impossible to capture everything, so you have to pick the things you believe to be most important.

Uncivilised nations can never be either great powers or powers of the second rank. Great Power status is very much how the Western World sees you. Even if you are rich and powerful, you are also just a bit backward, so you can never be a member of the elite club - or even the second team - if you are an uncivilised nation.

Uncivilised nations do not promote Capitalists, Clerks or Craftsmen and cannot build factories. They also research technologies at a slower rate than their civilised brethren. Essentially, uncivilised nations have a tough time of it in a world dominated by Western Powers.

However, all is not lost for the uncivilised nations. Every uncivilised country has a decision to allow them to civilise. We require a certain number of technologies, some prestige and enough of a military. Once you have reached those conditions the world considers you civilised and you can go about your merry way. There is no industrial score requirement, because industry score can only be gained from factories and uncivilised nations cannot build these.

Japan we treat as a special case. Not only did they civilise, but also they became one of the great powers. Thus, Japan has a special decision; the Meji Restoration. Japan gets a bigger boost from westernising and has lower requirements. It might seem a bit unfair to the other uncivilised nations, but we feel it will give more chance for a historical flow.

So there you have it, not all countries are equal, some are harder than others. Uncivilised nations are designed to be more challenging for the player, with Japan being a slightly easier country to play. Until then, Europe dominates the globe.
 

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Krispa40

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I would say that is not Eurocentric, I'd call ocidentalcentric. (translate by google)
 

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I was really hoping there would be less of an arbitrary line between civil and uncivil with this game, and a more gradual slope to being a modern state.
 

Romtos

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Is there any difference in difficulty among uncivilized nations to achieve the prerequisites in order to civilize?

And, as opposed to the EU3 westernization decisions, there are no 'in between' steps?
 

King

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Is there any difference in difficulty among uncivilized nations to achieve the prerequisites in order to civilize?

And, as opposed to the EU3 westernization decisions, there are no 'in between' steps?

With the exception of Japan no, everyone has a simple decision that will make you a member fo the civilised nation club. Japan has lower prequisits.
 

Phelan

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So through this decision you suddenly research faster than before? How should I interpret that?
 

pingupower

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That's nice.
Just hope uncivs are not to disadvantaged. Countries like Japan or China were big fishes back then.
 

King

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So through this decision you suddenly research faster than before? How should I interpret that?

Which ever way you want to do. It is all down to suspension of disbelife.
 

Ankios

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Will the uncivilized have more capacities at fighting western powers than in Vicky I ? Honestly in the first game it was impossible (or very difficult) to lose a war even against China when playing a Great Power ! Will it be harder now ?
 

King

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Will the uncivilized have more capacities at fighting western powers than in Vicky I ? Honestly in the first game it was impossible (or very difficult) to lose a war even against China when playing a Great Power ! Will it be harder now ?

How many wars did China win against great powers in the period?
 

hjarg

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So through this decision you suddenly research faster than before? How should I interpret that?

As a gameplay mechanic showing your years of progress and hard work finally reaching it's culmination?

How hard are the requirements?

edit: bah, and these were blacksmiths on screenshot. Heh, from this point of view, they looked like some kinds of sports trophys! :D
 

Weijun

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How difficult will it be to mod other country-specific civilizing decisions/events?
 

Cinéad IV

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How much of a research malus will uncivs get King? In vanilla Vicky it was almost pointless investing in technology
 

King

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hjarg

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Oh, and uncivilized nations still get artisans, right?
 

Ankios

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How many wars did China win against great powers in the period?

That's true

What I meant was that China almost always ended split in several parts, not with the only small portions of territories they lost in reality, with only ports in the hands of European powers
 

King

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King

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That's true

What I meant was that China almost always ended split in several parts, not with the only small portions of territories they lost in reality, with only ports in the hands of European powers

It'll depend on which war goals people who attack China pick.