Developer Diary 23 – Gold

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Paradox Midsummer Sale has arrived! Up to 75% off!

    Enjoy some sun and song this Midsummer, but when the sun goes down, the fun doesn't have to stop! Paradox has a festive sale on plenty of games to keep your summer nights going!


    June 18th - June 30th
  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
Let us turn our attention to the final piece of the economic jigsaw. We have put a lot of effort in closing the loops in the economic system. However, we cannot escape one simple fact; the population will grow, thus money supply needs to grow as well. So where does the money come from? We thought about this and it hit us that gold is the answer.

Gold and silver coinage was still very popular back in the Victorian era. The Austrian School still looks back on this as the good old days. Even in countries that issued bank notes, these tended to be backed by gold or silver. Thus, we feel there is a link between the growth in money supply and the mining of precious metals. In our system precious metal is no longer a trade good, instead it gets converted straight into money, with the money being split between those working in the RGO and the government.

So, having hit on this solution let’s talk about the benefits. First up, the gold-to-money conversion rate is a fixed value in the defines file. This makes the task of mid to late game economic balancing a lot easier. If we think there is simply too much money in the system as the game goes on, we can simply reduce this conversion rate, or vice-versa. Thus, not only do we have a system that makes sense from the point of view of the era, but it also gives us an easier way to balance the economic system.

The other benefit is geo-political. Those pesky Boer republics, why do you want them? GOLD of course! There be gold there so you want to have them to control this source of revenue. This is part of our aim in the game design to create a game with historical feeling; we give you good in-game reasons to pursue policies that people did during the period.

So there you have it, where does money come from? We have removed the Victoria system of the World market just buying everything and moved over to a more historical and easier to balance model, with the added bonus that certain historical decisions become more attractive to the player. All in all we feel this is a win/win.
 

Attachments

  • devdiary_may5.JPG
    devdiary_may5.JPG
    753,2 KB · Views: 38.008

Lloyien

Captain
98 Badges
Oct 22, 2005
365
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
I like this. A constant and steady (and increasing) money supply; it will do a lot to combat the deflation and such that I would expect to occur without this mechanism.
 

Orinsul

Absent Minded
95 Badges
Feb 7, 2008
8.753
1.222
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • VtM - Bloodlines 2 Blood Moon Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Will moving away from the gold standard as a decision appear, making less money be converted and it all go to the POPs or something.

And will POPs follow gold-rushes? or will they immgrate after one of them but then stay there forever?


ALSO BRILLIANT!
and im very happy to see named for provinces Armies
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
I like this working system behind the economy, but what really is the practical application for players?

There is a direct and an indirect application here. Firstly gold is a strategic resoruce. It is something you want to own and thus you as a player will need to think about how you get your hands on these provinces, Dr Jameson are you ready?

The other effect is we aim to have an economic system that runs better. As a player you need money to do things, but it shouldn't be too easy. A more balanced economic system makes the game fun (i.e. your economy doesn't tank straight away like Victoria 1.0) while at the same time challenging.
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
Will moving away from the gold standard as a decision appear, making less money be converted and it all go to the POPs or something.

And will POPs follow gold-rushes? or will they immgrate after one of them but then stay there forever?


ALSO BRILLIANT!
and im very happy to see named for provinces Armies

No our economic model always assumes that gold always backs your currency.

Demdends on the province, some provinces get timed modifiers when gold appears some don't.
 

Kriegsspieler

Field Marshal
65 Badges
Feb 27, 2003
10.324
627
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
So, having hit on this solution let’s talk about the benefits. First up, the gold-to-money conversion rate is a fixed value in the defines file. This makes the task of mid to late game economic balancing a lot easier. If we think there is simply too much money in the system as the game goes on, we can simply reduce this conversion rate, or vice-versa. Thus, not only do we have a system that makes sense from the point of view of the era, but it also gives us an easier way to balance the economic system.
King, I don't quite understand who the "we" is here. I take it that you're not referring to something that any player would necessarily have to do in the course of playing the game. Wouldn't it also be possible to control money growth by controlling the supply of gold?

Will provinces suddenly convert to gold, as they did in Vicky?
 

Ignudo

First Lieutenant
20 Badges
Jul 20, 2008
241
0
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
could you please describe how this mechanism affects countries that have no gold supply of their own? If I understand things right their only way to get money into their system would be via trading with gold posessing states, right?
 

Orinsul

Absent Minded
95 Badges
Feb 7, 2008
8.753
1.222
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • VtM - Bloodlines 2 Blood Moon Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
also the mountains are pretty
Great Work!
 

telesien

Grand Admiral
40 Badges
Aug 28, 2007
4.028
2.522
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 200k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
Gold and silver coinage was still very popular back in the Victorian era. The Austrian School still looks back on this as the good old days.

Try reading Money, Bank Credit and Economic cycles by Jesus Huerta de Soto. Magnificent book dealing a lot with the history of banking and the role of gold. In fact those good old days for Austrian school existed only in case of some banks like the Bank of Amsterdam :)

But I digress. What about small nations without any access to gold mines? Won't they be in bad position? Or will this be just solved by WM being open and changing prices all-over and redistributing wealth between nations? Is the mechanics of the spread of money and price changes across the world finished? Could it lead to some temporary crises?
 

Phelan

Colonel
74 Badges
Feb 4, 2006
810
69
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
In our system precious metal is no longer a trade good, instead it gets converted straight into money, with the money being split between those working in the RGO and the government.

How is the income for the miners and the government is calculated? I ask, because there is no world market price for gold any more. Depends it on the richness of the goldmine or the technology to exploit the gold mine?

So, having hit on this solution let’s talk about the benefits. First up, the gold-to-money conversion rate is a fixed value in the defines file. This makes the task of mid to late game economic balancing a lot easier. If we think there is simply too much money in the system as the game goes on, we can simply reduce this conversion rate, or vice-versa.

Or you can close some of the goldmine via random event. Gold deposits don't last forever!

The other benefit is geo-political. Those pesky Boer republics, why do you want them? GOLD of course! There be gold there so you want to have them to control this source of revenue. This is part of our aim in the game design to create a game with historical feeling; we give you good in-game reasons to pursue policies that people did during the period.

What about inflation for a nation with many gold mines. If you population doesn't grow at the same pace as your gold income there must be inflation!?
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
King, I don't quite understand who the "we" is here. I take it that you're not referring to something that any player would necessarily have to do in the course of playing the game. Wouldn't it also be possible to control money growth by controlling the supply of gold?

Will provinces suddenly convert to gold, as they did in Vicky?

The We is Paradox Interactive of course. We have given ourselves a means towards a more balanced economy.

Provinces suddenly convert to gold.
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
could you please describe how this mechanism affects countries that have no gold supply of their own? If I understand things right their only way to get money into their system would be via trading with gold posessing states, right?

Money has to circulate, the people who earn money off gold then go and spend it on the world market. The money then ciruclates around the globe.
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
How is the income for the miners and the government is calculated? I ask, because there is no world market price for gold any more. Depends it on the richness of the goldmine or the technology to exploit the gold mine?



Or you can close some of the goldmine via random event. Gold deposits don't last forever!



What about inflation for a nation with many gold mines. If you population doesn't grow at the same pace as your gold income there must be inflation!?

The Gold mine produces X ammount of Gold per day, this is converted to money at a fixed rate, the value is found in our defines file.

We could do that, but we don't.

Inflation is global via the world market.
 

alvaro

earl of whateverinster
41 Badges
Mar 20, 2001
4.252
1.812
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
how are the prices created then?
 

Phelan

Colonel
74 Badges
Feb 4, 2006
810
69
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
The vicky 1 technology inventions "silver standard" and "gold standard" are gone, I imagine.
 

King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
12.504
30
46
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
The vicky 1 technology inventions "silver standard" and "gold standard" are gone, I imagine.

You immagine incorrectly.