Developer Diary 18 – Great Powers and Rank

[Meanmanturbo]

So, to form Scandinavia as Sweden the plan is first become a great power, then get Denmark into your SOI? Shouldnt be that difficult if you use all inluence there...Now how to become a GP? There is always the hope that Russia gets into a Crimean type war, and Finland realy wants to come home were it belongs

 

[Alexander Seil]

I hope the natural ebb and flow of the game prevents great powers from changing commonly and having great wars occur often, especially earlier in the game. Although I suppose by the game's definition the Crimean War would have been a great war because it involved numerous great powers.

It only had one great power on one side, I think that wouldn't count as a Great War in V2 (you need 2 per side).

 

[Snall]

I would also be interested to know what being influenced by an AI GP means for a player.

 

[bbasgen]

The final option is launch a Great War.

I love it.

Losing Great Power status is even worse if you have a multinational empire; we are trying to give you something to think about here.

Fair enough, but will a multi-national empire have certain strategic advantages as well? In other words, it shouldn't be only a negative to be multi-national. America is the most obvious example of this, but the Ottoman Empire is an important, less obvious example of the positive effects of multi-culturalism in this era.

Thus you can find ways to ‘win’ wars without needing to paint the map your colour.

Great feature, ... one can only hope that the AI will be smart enough to actually intelligently make such decisions and concessions.

The great power focus is sounding wonderful. Great design. I hope the AI can execute it!!

 

[unmerged(67185)]

I love it.



Fair enough, but will a multi-national empire have certain strategic advantages as well? In other words, it shouldn't be only a negative to be multi-national. America is the most obvious example of this, but the Ottoman Empire is an important, less obvious example of the positive effects of multi-culturalism in this era.

The Ottoman empire and Austria-Hungary were both multicultural and they imploded because of nationalism I do not think its fair to compare them with the USA since the people who migrated to America did not become nationalistic in the same sense as Serbians for instance.

 

[bbasgen]

The Ottoman empire and Austria-Hungary were both multicultural and they imploded because of nationalism I do not think its fair to compare them with the USA since the people who migrated to America did not become nationalistic in the same sense as Serbians for instance.

Foregoing the historical discussion for the moment, the key point to any strategic game I think is to have pros and cons to any particular feature. Nationalities are a big deal in Victoria, so my point is simply that have a pluralistic culture should have disadvantages when loosing Great Power status, but should also have tangible advantages.

 

[Alexander Seil]

Well, in a sense, but it's unclear how to account for the benefits of multiculturalism, short of giving educated minority POPs an RP production bonus (but only under certain citizenship policies).

The point is that nationalities are supposed to be a limit to expansion. They're the "con" to overexpanding in any direction one chooses, because one doesn't want too many disenfranchised and angry Serbs, Albanians and Italians in your xenophobically Pan-German Austrian state (assuming the xenophobic Pan-Germans are in power).

 

[ashandresash]

Nationalism is one of the more promising feature in Victoria2.

I'm loving this 'sandbox' pride you're showing (I strongly support this development of Paradox games) and the idea of giving alternatives to paint the world... and making game enjoyable.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Nationalism is one of the more promising feature in Victoria2.

I'm loving this 'sandbox' pride you're showing (I strongly support this development of Paradox games) and the idea of giving alternatives to paint the world... and making game enjoyable.

Yes. Sandbox was always the right answer... leaves us only with the problem of implementation

 

[Colon]

Foregoing the historical discussion for the moment, the key point to any strategic game I think is to have pros and cons to any particular feature. Nationalities are a big deal in Victoria, so my point is simply that have a pluralistic culture should have disadvantages when loosing Great Power status, but should also have tangible advantages.

You are forgetting another aspect of strategic games, namely the need to have hedges against excessive expansionism. Often they've had a great difficulties to create effective hedges because the difficulties of having different peoples within a common border isn't simulated. Vic2 can utilise this hedge because it has nationalities, but you are essentially asking to weaken it again.

 

[JoeGiavani]

Well... new China, Japan, Italy, maybe Spain if they play their cards right, Ottomans and never underestimate Paradox created Sweden

Okay I forgot about Japan. But if Italy or Spain are more powerful than Russia...I can't help but feel sorry for the Russians.

 

[telesien]

Okay I forgot about Japan. But if Italy or Spain are more powerful than Russia...I can't help but feel sorry for the Russians.

And you should be I am of course talking about Russia with cripled economy, poor army and striken by inner turmoil and militant minorities. China was huge too and had a lot of people, but was sooooo far from being GP....

 

[unmerged(63310)]

And you should be I am of course talking about Russia with cripled economy, poor army and striken by inner turmoil and militant minorities. China was huge too and had a lot of people, but was sooooo far from being GP....

Actually China was not that far from a GP. 2nd rank for sure most of this era. Think of their history... several GP pressuring them simultaneously and not much calm to recover before something started again. Maybe not like France only 30 years before the game starts but then France was the most powerful nation of the western powers and it took only 20 years really to end that with the other GP in league against it or opposing it one way or another even when not in military alliance.

China had huge land area to defend at the same time poor infrastructure and a weak navy and so couldn't use its superior numbers of military which while maybe not at level of Europeans was not some African tribes without guns or something either.

Russia is similar situation but its most populated areas were not as vulnerable to naval power as well had allies at various times amongst the European nations whereas China almost always being allied against not with.

 

[Orinsul]

So you cant see the map while pursuing diplomacy? Its all game-stopping full screen windows?

 

[Bob Ilyani]

Fantastic AAR. This new GP system is amazing. I love the sandbox style of the new PI games!

 

[Insignificant]

Hmm, I might buy it right away.

 

[unmerged(196349)]

So you cant see the map while pursuing diplomacy? Its all game-stopping full screen windows?

With post paradox games you can unpause whilst in there

 

[Orinsul]

With post paradox games you can unpause whilst in there

not you cant unpause, because the screen covers the messages box.
Unlike Victoria I and CK all the new games have interfaces whereby you HAVE to stop the game to use the windows or even just to keep track of battles in EU3 as they cover the messages and now with HoI3 and Victoria II everything else as well. So you have to stop the game or else itll go by without you.
Three Steps back, while all the new features and mechanics and all the wonderful good work their doing is great, in reguards to the windows its worse than it used to be without a doubt. I mean itll still be a great game but its still a terrible thing, even more a terrible thing for that as everything else that is getting better nothing should detract from that.

 

[unmerged(134218)]

Fair enough, but will a multi-national empire have certain strategic advantages as well?

The benieft of having a potentially large workforce is...having a potentially large workforce.

EDIT: Okay, yeah, that was a stupid comment. Sorry for that.

 

[Garak]

not you cant unpause, because the screen covers the messages box.
Unlike Victoria I and CK all the new games have interfaces whereby you HAVE to stop the game to use the windows or even just to keep track of battles in EU3 as they cover the messages and now with HoI3 and Victoria II everything else as well. So you have to stop the game or else itll go by without you.
Three Steps back, while all the new features and mechanics and all the wonderful good work their doing is great, in reguards to the windows its worse than it used to be without a doubt. I mean itll still be a great game but its still a terrible thing, even more a terrible thing for that as everything else that is getting better nothing should detract from that.

Why on Earth wouldn't you pause the game when looking at these windows, anyway?