• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Meanmanturbo

General
91 Badges
May 19, 2008
2.263
5.417
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • For the Motherland
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
So, to form Scandinavia as Sweden the plan is first become a great power, then get Denmark into your SOI? Shouldnt be that difficult if you use all inluence there...Now how to become a GP? There is always the hope that Russia gets into a Crimean type war, and Finland realy wants to come home were it belongs:D
 

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
56 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
I hope the natural ebb and flow of the game prevents great powers from changing commonly and having great wars occur often, especially earlier in the game. Although I suppose by the game's definition the Crimean War would have been a great war because it involved numerous great powers.

It only had one great power on one side, I think that wouldn't count as a Great War in V2 (you need 2 per side).
 

Snall

Acid Tester
27 Badges
Jan 6, 2001
1.673
5
www.wtfman.com
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • East India Company
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Pride of Nations
  • 200k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I would also be interested to know what being influenced by an AI GP means for a player.
 

bbasgen

Field Marshal
62 Badges
Jul 12, 2005
2.780
192
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
The final option is launch a Great War.

I love it.

Losing Great Power status is even worse if you have a multinational empire; we are trying to give you something to think about here.

Fair enough, but will a multi-national empire have certain strategic advantages as well? In other words, it shouldn't be only a negative to be multi-national. America is the most obvious example of this, but the Ottoman Empire is an important, less obvious example of the positive effects of multi-culturalism in this era.

Thus you can find ways to ‘win’ wars without needing to paint the map your colour.

Great feature, ... one can only hope that the AI will be smart enough to actually intelligently make such decisions and concessions. :p

The great power focus is sounding wonderful. Great design. I hope the AI can execute it!!
 

unmerged(67185)

Lt. General
Feb 5, 2007
1.471
3
I love it.



Fair enough, but will a multi-national empire have certain strategic advantages as well? In other words, it shouldn't be only a negative to be multi-national. America is the most obvious example of this, but the Ottoman Empire is an important, less obvious example of the positive effects of multi-culturalism in this era.

The Ottoman empire and Austria-Hungary were both multicultural and they imploded because of nationalism I do not think its fair to compare them with the USA since the people who migrated to America did not become nationalistic in the same sense as Serbians for instance.
 

bbasgen

Field Marshal
62 Badges
Jul 12, 2005
2.780
192
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
The Ottoman empire and Austria-Hungary were both multicultural and they imploded because of nationalism I do not think its fair to compare them with the USA since the people who migrated to America did not become nationalistic in the same sense as Serbians for instance.

Foregoing the historical discussion for the moment, the key point to any strategic game I think is to have pros and cons to any particular feature. Nationalities are a big deal in Victoria, so my point is simply that have a pluralistic culture should have disadvantages when loosing Great Power status, but should also have tangible advantages.
 

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
56 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
Well, in a sense, but it's unclear how to account for the benefits of multiculturalism, short of giving educated minority POPs an RP production bonus (but only under certain citizenship policies).

The point is that nationalities are supposed to be a limit to expansion. They're the "con" to overexpanding in any direction one chooses, because one doesn't want too many disenfranchised and angry Serbs, Albanians and Italians in your xenophobically Pan-German Austrian state (assuming the xenophobic Pan-Germans are in power).
 

ashandresash

Funk to funky
131 Badges
Jul 29, 2008
2.776
4.347
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Deus Vult
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
Nationalism is one of the more promising feature in Victoria2.

I'm loving this 'sandbox' pride you're showing (I strongly support this development of Paradox games) and the idea of giving alternatives to paint the world... and making game enjoyable.
 

Earl Uhtred

Unfurl The Bratwurst
67 Badges
Feb 16, 2002
6.435
444
nope.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Nationalism is one of the more promising feature in Victoria2.

I'm loving this 'sandbox' pride you're showing (I strongly support this development of Paradox games) and the idea of giving alternatives to paint the world... and making game enjoyable.

Yes. Sandbox was always the right answer... leaves us only with the problem of implementation :)
 

Colon

Major
2 Badges
Feb 19, 2000
666
88
Visit site
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Foregoing the historical discussion for the moment, the key point to any strategic game I think is to have pros and cons to any particular feature. Nationalities are a big deal in Victoria, so my point is simply that have a pluralistic culture should have disadvantages when loosing Great Power status, but should also have tangible advantages.

You are forgetting another aspect of strategic games, namely the need to have hedges against excessive expansionism. Often they've had a great difficulties to create effective hedges because the difficulties of having different peoples within a common border isn't simulated. Vic2 can utilise this hedge because it has nationalities, but you are essentially asking to weaken it again.
 

telesien

Grand Admiral
40 Badges
Aug 28, 2007
4.028
17.857
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 200k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Okay I forgot about Japan. But if Italy or Spain are more powerful than Russia...I can't help but feel sorry for the Russians.

And you should be :) I am of course talking about Russia with cripled economy, poor army and striken by inner turmoil and militant minorities. China was huge too and had a lot of people, but was sooooo far from being GP....
 

unmerged(63310)

General
Dec 5, 2006
1.882
2
And you should be :) I am of course talking about Russia with cripled economy, poor army and striken by inner turmoil and militant minorities. China was huge too and had a lot of people, but was sooooo far from being GP....

Actually China was not that far from a GP. 2nd rank for sure most of this era. Think of their history... several GP pressuring them simultaneously and not much calm to recover before something started again. Maybe not like France only 30 years before the game starts but then France was the most powerful nation of the western powers and it took only 20 years really to end that with the other GP in league against it or opposing it one way or another even when not in military alliance.

China had huge land area to defend at the same time poor infrastructure and a weak navy and so couldn't use its superior numbers of military which while maybe not at level of Europeans was not some African tribes without guns or something either.

Russia is similar situation but its most populated areas were not as vulnerable to naval power as well had allies at various times amongst the European nations whereas China almost always being allied against not with.
 

unmerged(196349)

Banned
7 Badges
Feb 21, 2010
718
20
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Pillars of Eternity
So you cant see the map while pursuing diplomacy? Its all game-stopping full screen windows?

With post paradox games you can unpause whilst in there
 

Orinsul

Absent Minded
115 Badges
Feb 7, 2008
8.934
2.434
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
With post paradox games you can unpause whilst in there

not you cant unpause, because the screen covers the messages box.
Unlike Victoria I and CK all the new games have interfaces whereby you HAVE to stop the game to use the windows or even just to keep track of battles in EU3 as they cover the messages and now with HoI3 and Victoria II everything else as well. So you have to stop the game or else itll go by without you.
Three Steps back, while all the new features and mechanics and all the wonderful good work their doing is great, in reguards to the windows its worse than it used to be without a doubt. I mean itll still be a great game but its still a terrible thing, even more a terrible thing for that as everything else that is getting better nothing should detract from that.
 

Garak

Field Marshal
89 Badges
Feb 29, 2008
3.324
427
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
not you cant unpause, because the screen covers the messages box.
Unlike Victoria I and CK all the new games have interfaces whereby you HAVE to stop the game to use the windows or even just to keep track of battles in EU3 as they cover the messages and now with HoI3 and Victoria II everything else as well. So you have to stop the game or else itll go by without you.
Three Steps back, while all the new features and mechanics and all the wonderful good work their doing is great, in reguards to the windows its worse than it used to be without a doubt. I mean itll still be a great game but its still a terrible thing, even more a terrible thing for that as everything else that is getting better nothing should detract from that.

Why on Earth wouldn't you pause the game when looking at these windows, anyway? :confused: