Developer Diary 13 – Upper House and Reform

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No they upper and lower house is seperate. So a conservative POP (i.e. one who is happy with how things are) may also like the Liberla government. So they vote for a Liberal lowerhouse and a Conservative Upper House.

It is a bit... bizzare... So, for instance communistt POP which is happy with social reforms introduced by communist governement will be voting for communist party (lower house) but in upper house he willl be represented as conservative???

Am I understand it right?

 

[King]

It is a bit... bizzare... So, for instance communistt POP which is happy with social reforms introduced by communist governement will be voting for communist party (lower house) but in upper house he willl be represented as conservative???

Am I understand it right?

Yes, we are trying to make two distinctions here. You attitude towards reform and how you want your country to be right now.

 

[Wulfram]

It seems like the system was designed to make it impossible to implement both social and political reforms at the same time, unless there's high militancy. Hence the lack of social liberals

 

[Pjoo]

Lovely DD. The way politics are handled is great. While it doesn't many ideologies, they are still represented. Social democrats might be socialist but still want capitalism, and turn conservative after some social reforms. I think having liberal socialists would be nice, but it's good enough. And moddable.

Moddable...


Damn, this will be so awesome.

 

[ulrichomega]

I just remembered how complicated Vicky 1 was when I was first playing it. This is going to take some getting used to.

Will the tutorial cover this very well? I think it'll be crucial to getting people to enjoy the game, because if they don't understand it, they won't understand how to get their government to what they want, and won't be able to do what they want.

 

[Slyguy3129]

You betcha! I presume they are especially against extension of healthcare coverage in the US...

That depends on if our idiot President could ever think of a viable health care plan that doesn't involve the government talking control of it. It would also help if he mentioned just where he plans on getting the money to fund this. Jesus and people thought Bush was an idiot.

 

[RELee]

Down, Dutch! Down, boy! Here's a treat. Who's a good boy? Yes, who's a good boy?

 

[FmrPFCBob]

[sarcasm] If the govt provides it and says its free ... it's free isn't it? There's no money involved, at least not from the poor, only the evil rich pay taxes right?

 

[RELee]

Y'all are just bound and determined to get this thread on the skids to closure or OT, aren't ya?

 

[FmrPFCBob]

The interface is looking very nice and I like the way the reforms are being implemented. I really think this will be a successful release with the new policies PI is using after HoI3 for quality control.

 

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No parties in the upper house?????

 

[JWSIII]

I really like this DD, I was frustrated with some of Vic 1's approaches on politics (I really did feel like only 1-2 governments were end-game viable), and I think this has huge potential.

Two questions

1: Will each "house" of your government effect immigration? For example, if you have a liberal gov't and a liberal upper house, will you get "liberalx2" pull for liberal pops, and if you have a liberal lower house and a conservative upper house, will you get some of each, or is it some other system?

2: Will a conservative upper house but a liberal lower house translate to you being "very" liberal, since that can represent happy liberals with their goals met, or will it represent some of each (conservative and liberal), or none of the above?

 

[Darkrenown]

yep..

You just need to add it in the ideologies file, and then tell your pops when to become it..

here's an example of how the conservative ideology is defined..

conservative = {
	color = { 10 10 250 }
	
	can_reduce_militancy = yes
	
	add_political_reform = {
		factor = 1
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.25
			NOT = { militancy = 8 }
			militancy = 7
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0
			NOT = { militancy = 7 }
		}
		
	}
	remove_political_reform = {
		factor = 0
	}
	add_social_reform = {
		factor = 1
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.25
			NOT = { militancy = 8 }
			NOT = { militancy = 7 }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0
			NOT = { militancy = 7 }
		}		
	}
	remove_social_reform = {
		factor = 0
	}
	

}

Basically, they never want to remove reforms.. and are only for giving reforms when the average militancy is extremely high in a country.

Would it be much work to allow scripting in certain limits within those scopes? E.g. you could have:

remove_political_reform = {
		factor = 1
                Limit = { Slavery = no }

	}

That is, this ideology wants to roll back political reforms with the exception of slavery.

Or:

remove_political_reform = {
		factor = 1
                Limit = { voting_rights = wealth }

	}

This ideology wants to remove political reforms too, but they only want voting rights rolled back to wealth, not to landed or none, probably because this is an ideology for rich types who want to keep the riff-raff from voting

Even if you didn't want to use this in the base game, it could be handy for modders if it was possible.

 

[unmerged(48056)]

That depends on if our idiot President could ever think of a viable health care plan that doesn't involve the government talking control of it. It would also help if he mentioned just where he plans on getting the money to fund this. Jesus and people thought Bush was an idiot.

Simple: As an interventionist he will slash social funding to 25%. Meaning a lot of death panels and inadequate medical coverage for everyone. :rofl:

 

[King]

No parties in the upper house?????

No the upper house represents an agenda rather than a party. So if we take the USA in 1932 the upper house would be a socialist upperhouse, but these wouldn't actually be true socialists in the sense of a Socialist party in power, but instead New Deal Democrats. If you see what I mean.

 

[King]

I really like this DD, I was frustrated with some of Vic 1's approaches on politics (I really did feel like only 1-2 governments were end-game viable), and I think this has huge potential.

Two questions

1: Will each "house" of your government effect immigration? For example, if you have a liberal gov't and a liberal upper house, will you get "liberalx2" pull for liberal pops, and if you have a liberal lower house and a conservative upper house, will you get some of each, or is it some other system?

2: Will a conservative upper house but a liberal lower house translate to you being "very" liberal, since that can represent happy liberals with their goals met, or will it represent some of each (conservative and liberal), or none of the above?

1. The Scripts for immigration have yet to be done properly so we all in all these effects need to be measured. Anyway I never like the baise that Victoria 1 had towards Liberalism when it came to immigration. I prefer to look at things like employment opportunities and things like that.

2. A Conservative Upper house and a Liberal Lower house, represents a content country (assuming the upper house is actually elected) with a free market economy.

 

[Dagfinn]

Im more and more impressed

@King

If you manages to pull all of these new wonderfull ideas off, and even makes the AI abide to them, you surely have one hell of a game at hand!

 

[unmerged(48056)]

I would really hope that how they want to roll back reforms can be targeted to make sense, i.e. they don't just always try and roll back to the default option, but the ideologically sound one. Communists instituting slavery makes no sense whatsoever.

I agree, instituting slavery on your people makes no sense but nevertheless the 'Communists', under Lenin and Stalin, did so under the system of gulag and collectivization.

 

[The Andy-Man]

Nice DD! It seems you guys have made a vaery nice workable abstraction of politics - it seems a little confusing at first, but makes sense with a moments thought, I think!

I have one question though - will there be Presidential elections and such things? Or will the heads of state remain as in V:R?

 

[Piddyx]

1. The Scripts for immigration have yet to be done properly so we all in all these effects need to be measured. Anyway I never like the baise that Victoria 1 had towards Liberalism when it came to immigration. I prefer to look at things like employment opportunities and things like that.

2. A Conservative Upper house and a Liberal Lower house, represents a content country (assuming the upper house is actually elected) with a free market economy.

I never liked that either, or the strong draw of the United States.

There was a good article published called "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition" (Psychological Bulletin). It is a few years old but is still discussed today. I think you would find it interesting to read, and also interesting in how the findings of the article parallel your approach to modeling the behavior of pops. (John T Jost seems to have made a career for himself with his approach to political Science. I think one of my favorite titles I have seen was his "Sour grapes, sweet lemons, and the anticipatory rationalization of the status quo")