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King

Part Time Game Designer
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Dec 7, 2001
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This system grew out of the problem of how PoPs pick ideologies. Now, British conservatism is of course all about Queen, Empire, etc. However, you do not see American conservatives going on about how much better it was when George III was in charge; if only the British would allow us back into the Empire... For gameplay purposes we needed the ideologies to mean the same thing for all countries; that way we could have generic scripts for ideology picking. This makes development easier, debugging quicker and those tweaks that make it feel right simpler to do. So, first we sat down and defined exactly what each ideology means.

Conservative: I am happy with the Status Quo
Reactionary: This government has failed to defend the Status Quo
Liberal: I want political reform
Anarcho-Liberal: This government will not give us political reform
Socialist: I want social reform
Communist: This government will not give us social reform
Fascist: I am angry about something but find it difficult to articulate exactly what it is.

Now, this may be a bit generic, but for our purposes it sets up a logical foundation for when POPs should strongly swing towards these ideologies and what they should do in the upper house.

We have divided reforms into two broad categories; social and political. Your ability to enact them also depends on two factors; the upper house composition and the average militancy in your country. Each ideology gives a different effect in the upper house and thus your ability to pass certain reforms depends on what ideologies hold sway in your upper house.

Conservative: Conservatives in the 19th century we see as those that tried to limit reforms to preserve the old order. When the threat of revolution got high enough, the conservatives would seek to give some ground in order to preserve the rest. This new Status Quo would be the one that the Conservatives would now seek to defend. The result is that conservative members of the upper house never support the removal of current reforms. However, they will not support the extension of reforms either. However, under conditions of high militancy some Conservative members of the upper house will break ranks and support either social or political reform.

Reactionary: Well, the name sums it up. Reactionaries don’t like the way things are and instead hanker for the good old days that probably never existed anyway. Reactionary members of the upper house never support the extension of existing reforms and instead support the removal of all reforms.

Liberal: We tie liberalism and political reform together. Liberalism as an ideology is all about seeking reform of the political system. Thus, members of the upper house who have a liberal ideology always support the extension of political reform. Like conservatism, some will support the extension of social reform but only under conditions of high average militancy.

Anarcho-Liberal: Anarcho-Liberals are angry liberals. They will actually seek to prevent the extension of political reforms, because they would much rather overthrow the government than reform it. They also support the rolling back of social reforms, because the government should be as small as possible.

Socialists: The socialists are the opposite of the liberals. Socialists, like their name implies, seek social reforms always. They never want to roll back reforms, and some will support political reform under conditions of high militancy.

Communists: The people who are dedicated to protecting the workers from everyone except the communists. They always support the removal of political reforms and always support the advancement of social reform.

Fascists: Do not support any move on reform unless there is a fascist government. Then they behave the same as communists. Essentially, in opposition the fascists are spoilers in the political system, seeking to force gridlock to allow a fascist revolution.

Thus the shifting dynamic of the upper house alters your options for reforming your country. How the upper house shifts depends in part on events - just to make sure you don’t get to complacent - and partly on your choice of political reform. You have 4 choices of upper house make up:

Ruling party only: Where 100% of the upper house is always the same as the ruling party. Representing things like the Supreme Soviet.
Appointed: The upper house reflects the ideologies of your rich strata. This is akin to the British House of Lords
State Equal Weight: Each state inside the country sends an equal number of representatives to the Upper House. The US senate model.
Population Weight: Each state sends representatives to the upper house based upon their population. Much like the German Bundesrat.

The last two are elected chambers (yes I know the German Bundesrat was not directly elected per se, but we have to make compromises here) and we have also added two additional voting options for your country. Between Wealth and Landed, we have Wealth Weighted; here both the rich and middle strata have the vote but the Rich votes count as double. We also have universal weighted voting. Everyone (except slaves) has the vote, but Rich POPs votes count as 3, middle as 2 and poor get one 1 vote. This allows additional flexibility in moulding your country.

All in all we have sought to add an additional dimension to the game. Political reform is not just a steady advancement toward some socialist utopia; it is much more driven by the internal factors inside your country. As your country’s ideological outlook changes, so too do your reform options.

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So given a long enough game, there will only be conservatives, being liberal is not a steady-state equilibrium?

Depends on the POP type, some POPs have a stronger affinity for Liberalism even if they do wish political refrom. Plus you can be conservative and support free trade and thus vote for a liberal party in the lower house.
 
This will make Russia interesting ( I presume there's a fair few reactionaries there).

We have no country specific scripts as such. Russians go reactionary for just the same reasons that other people do. I will return to issue and ideology picking later.

Are unions considered political or social reform? And does the 'conditions of high militancy' mean among their voters, or in the country overall?

Unions are a political refrom that increases the desire for social reform.

Which POPs start as AL voters?

No POPs start that way as the ideology is not enabled at start, but once it comes into play, angry liberals of course.

Only under high militancy? I think Socialist parties should always seek an extension of voting rights.

For game play puposes they don't. It makes things easier for ideology picking and interface representation.

OK, this is getting confusing, can you please clarify which are political and which are social reforms?

If you are looking at the screenshot, the ones under political refrom are political reforms and the ones under social refrom are the social refroms.


So does the upper house get composed at the same time as a general election? How does that work?

Depends on how you pick your upperhouse, but for electives ones we have one election for both upper and lower house.

OK, but can rich POPs get in regardless of ideology?

Yes

So basically all the time that won't be spent clicking to promote POPs is now going to be spend studying and strategising on POPs? Brilliant. I foresee much pausing to think decisions through.

A bit of that, but also we are trying to make things seem more real. Reform is something you manage not something you power game.
 
Is there any kind of Lower House ? In the screenshot, the Whig party represents the major party in the Upper House or in the Lower House ?

Nice DD :)

The Whig party are your lowerhouse, and like Victoria their policies set the day to day restrictions on your country. Things like taxation and stuff like that.
 
How much liberty will we have to choose political reforms? Will it be possible to turn your country into a dictatorship from democracy via reforms alone (albeit at a heavy price)?

Depends entirely on your upperhouse. If you get a load of reactionaries and/or communists in your upperhouse then you can roll back those nasty reforms and become a good old fashioned dictatorship.
 
Considering that conservative is the only status quo ideology... do political parties change ideology? Ie. Would a socialist or liberal party which had achieved its goals transform into a conservative party? It would be somewhat strange to have a successful political party with who people are satisfied with lose elections...

It does explain how George W. became president, but it might be annoying game-wise.

Lowerhouse and upperhouse voting is sperate. So you can have a boradly conservative country, with a conservative upperhouse voting in a liberal party because they like the Free Trade. Thus your day to day business is liberal but your country is boradly happy with the current status quo. POP ideology only become important when you have a tie break, if you have both a conservative and a liberal party with the political issue that the POP favours, then the ideology will become important then.
 
Oh and also, have you added some kind of spawn mechanism for new parties, depending on emergence of new issues, but not strictly historical?

To explain - if I'm some backwater state who knows where, and i somehow manage to modernize my country sufficiently for my people to become involved in my policies, but there's no hard coded socialist party for my country (as was possible in V1) - is it possible for the party to suddenly appear? Or do I have to go into the files like in the good old days? :D

In V:R we added a party for each ideology for each country. So everyone will have a socialist party even if they historically did not have a strong socialist movement.
 
So the lower house will always consist of only the winning party?

And shouldn't all revolution seeking parties act like spoilers and not only fascist? It looks like rational decision for them and at least our communists used to act like this in the 20s and 30s

The Lowerhouse and voting will get a detailed developer diary of its own. We decided not to do that with the communist party due to its historical tradition of aligning with the socialists in normal conditions.
 
Thanks for the responses. Looks like a lot of dpeth has been added to the political system. A few questions on the screenshot.

What is Weighted Universal?
How do the three voting system options work?
Is it safe to assume you aren't going to explain the political party options in this DD?

From Developer diary #13

"We also have universal weighted voting. Everyone (except slaves) has the vote, but Rich POPs votes count as 3, middle as 2 and poor get one 1 vote."

I will come back to these voting systems in a later diary.
 
But it is possible that some times Liberals seek social reforms from time to time so isn't this modeling possible Social Liberals neatly?

Under conditions of high militancy Liberals will support social reforms to stave off revolution.
 
Assuming as being Monarchy I picked the rulling party (as it was in Vic1 - still possible?) - fascists or communists for example and that introduced political reforms to go to the democracy. In Vic 1 after a while I had proletarian/presidential dictatorship (democracy+ruling fascist = presidential dictatorship after few weeks). Is it going to be a case in Vic2?

No, a Communist party cannot force through the conversion to a Proletarian Dictatorship without control of the upperhouse. However should you roll back reforms enough you will then endup with a Dictatorship.
 
OK, so lets say you get the commies into the lowerhouse. Is the choice yours whether to roll back political reforms? Do your pro-commie POPs get annoyed with you if you dont? Is there some other mechanism to incline you towards doing it?

I think this is the best DD so far BTW. At the halfway point of the DDs, I can say my high expectations have been exceeded.

The choice is yours to do so politically. Rebels on the other hand have a nasty habit of doing that on their own.
 
So, is there any form of coup possible? For instance, ruling party is using force to remove other parties and introduce dictatorship. Or the reforms are the only way to change it?

Rebels with a cause
 
You're saying that if the same ideology controls both the upper house and lower house - the ruling party now has leave to do certain things on its own - like changing the constitutional form of your country?

No you decide these kinds of things.
 
How the decisions are going to work? (I didn't play EU3, just everything up to 2).

Decisions replace major events, for example in EU3:IN the formation of Spain is now a decision taken by the player if he meets the conditions. Like events decisions have a trigger block that determines when they can be taken and an effect block which determines what they do. There are two difference between decisions and events. Firstly deicision are taken when the player decides rather than when the event engine fires it. Secondly decisions have a two part trigger block, a potential and an allow. The potential block tellls the game engine when to display the decision and the allow block when it can taken. When a decision is displayed as a potential, the tool tips tell you what conditions need to be met for the decision to be taken. If we go back to the formation of Spain example, the player can see at a glance, that yes he/she/sujectotchange can form Spain and exactly what they must do to achieve this.
 
I have some questions regardin the screenshot (just to be safe they are all focused on upper house part of it ;) )

1. what in game means "can appoint ruling party"?

2.what is the meaning of those 2 icons with 0% next to them?

3.what means that "can not do social reforms" and "can do social reforms" ? Does the tick and X reffer to something? Because I can't relate it to anything on the screenshot.

4. I can't see the reform to change how the upper house is selected anywhere. Or does the fist icon has anything to do with this?

1. It means that under this form of government you can override the election result and pick from the list of valid parties.

2. Plurality and Revanchism

3. Your current upperhouse composition does not allow the extension of social reform but does allow the extension of political refrom

4. Second on the list of political refroms, between Slavery and Vote Franchise.