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King

Part Time Game Designer
11 Badges
Dec 7, 2001
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Victoria 2 Beta
Victoria 2 is not a game that focuses on warfare, however that is not to say that warfare should be neglected. The Victorian period did see a number of small skirmishes, like some sort of very civil dispute in America and a couple of small scale battles in France. So although we may not be willing to devote as much time to the military as we are to things like politics and economics, it still does get a bit of a make over.

Our first big change is to directly link a unit and a soldier POP. You no longer recruit troops from manpower; you recruit troops from a specific province, and thus a specific soldier POP. This gives us a very neat consequence, if your soldier POP gets unhappy we know exactly which unit will get upset.

At a base level we have selected the 3,000 man brigade as the base unit. However, unlike Hearts of Iron 3, you can group these together in stacks of any size for manoeuvre purposes. Our aim is to get the right blend of flexibility vs. micromanagement.

The core combat system is a combination of Rome, EU3 and HoI3. So we have frontages, artillery units sit in the rear rank, firing over the enemy. We have attack frontages that widen as you advance in technology while your units improve in ability. We are aiming for two effects here, first a smaller modern army will actually be more effective in combat than a larger backward one. Secondly we want to see the evolution of military. In the American civil war, armies marched around and fought epic engagements, essentially unchanged since time immemorial. By World War I you had continuous front lines. As your technology advances the amount of troops you need to fight effectively in a province drops, leading to a much more frontal style of warfare.

There is still the question of Cavalry. The Victorian period opens with Cavalry still being the supreme shock weapon; just witness the amazing success of the Charge of the Light Brigade. However, cavalry is already becoming obsolete in a battlefield role, in the American civil war we see cavalry as scouting units and raiding instead of being used in set piece battles. By the end of the period cavalry is completely obsolete.

What we have done is add a new combat variable, reconnaissance. Reconnaissance does two things; a high reconnaissance value increases the speed at which you capture provinces. Secondly if you enter combat not dug in, then your relative reconnaissance value assists you in combat. Essentially, the more you know about the enemy before you attack the more likely your commander is to be able to attack in the right place. High recon will benefit you, and penalise the opposition. However, with each successive round of combat the effect starts to diminish (nothing quite like shooting at people to give yourself away to the enemy). Cavalry units have very high recon values, so an army with cavalry fighting an army without will have a decided advantage in combat.

Now I know what you are thinking, the Battle of the Somme did not open with British cavalry probing the German trenches to get reconnaissance for Haig, and we have thought of that too. The Aeroplane is much better than the horse for reconnaissance. Thus, your late game army all but dispenses with cavalry and instead you have aeroplanes as your scouting units.
 

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Wow! This is a far bigger overhaul to the military than I had expected! I thought it was going to be almost unchanged form the original.


So if I understand right, you will have to be a lot more selective about who you recruit, because of revolting soldier units, and will have to be a lot more careful to keep military POPS happy? No more forcing swathes of recently-conquered resentful natives into service?

There is the risk, our goal is that you can no longer ues soldiers fromt he provicne with the unhappy soldiers to supress the revolting unhappy soldiers

Cool. So is there still unit attachements, as in V1?

No

Great. It'll be interesting to have to completely change tactics, composition etc of armies during the course of the game.

Not enitrely, but late game units are better, so perhaps in your colonies you keep your old style armies for longer, but when you are up against an equal you are going to need the best.

Will reconnaissance be in any way tied to provence infrastructure (telegraphs, etc), or just to technology?

No, it is your recon ability vs theirs. So if they have more air units than you, then you will be attacking blind.

Seperate units?

yes, but for game purposes a land unit. You do not have long range air power, or an independent tactical airforce. You had a flying corps which supports the land army, through recon and if you are lucky manged to drop a bomb that wounds a tactically important enemy horse.
 
Aeroplanes gets a role, that's nice. Are aeroplanes a recruitable unit like cavalry, or are they an attachment, like in V1?

no, seperate unit. An air unit is a 3,000 man brigade which includes all the personel to keep the damn things flying.
 
Interesting, great info!
A question; what does Kutaisi written under Tbilisi mean? I know it is another town in Georgia, does that mean every province has a capital city and a smaller regional city?
Another comment, in the cores section the Russian flag seems to be not centred, i.e. the white stripe is smaller than the black stripe. Also; no Georgian national cores, or are revolters not done yet?

Tiblisi is the name of the state, there is a Tibilisi province inside Tibilisi state as well.
 
It sounds like attachments are out. The division+attachment of Vicky I would be 3 infantry/cavalry/dragoon brigades + artillery/regular/etc.

What's interesting about this is that we'll now have to really pay attention to the cost, because I'm pretty sure we all know we want to have divisions consisting entirely of regulars, or regulars/artillery (Or divisions consisting of guards, if you like BURNING MONEY, but, y'know).

Soldier POPs cost money, brigades cost goods.
 
Shouldn't attack frontages shorten as you advance in technology? Better technology means you need less people to cover certain lenght of frontage. Or atleast reduce the frontage of the enemy.

No the total front line is fixed, if the attack frotnage widens then fewer units can fit in the fixed front line.
 
Interesting info King, cheers.

So are dragoons still in?

If cavalry is taking more of a backseat in this game, will
we see more variety in brigades? ie- light, heavy & horse artillery, engineers etc. And what of late game tanks?

And a little flavour request, can we have nation specific brigade/regiment nam
es please- or at least the ability to mod in such things ourselves.

Cavalry doesn't take a back seat persay, it just no longer as effective on the battlefield. If you want to take provinces quickly, you want cavalry.
 
In the screenshot, there is a button called "Build army". Does this mean that armies are no longer built centrally (HoI style), but instead in a specific province (EU style)? Or does it just mean: take a soldier POP here and use it to build put new divisions on the (national, HoI style) build queue?

There is a handy mapmode that paints provinces green where you can build troops.
 
Will the soldiers always gravitate into 3000 family unit PoPs? Or will it be possible to recruit multiple units from a single PoP? If they do gravitate into brigade sized groups, will there be some extra (like a 4000 family unit PoPs) to provide immidiate replacements for the unit, representing some form of depot brigade?


Also, will the game use the 'movement is attack' or the 'attack after movement' system? It would be very nice if the system changed late game to represent front warfare, but I doubt that's possible.

Oh, and will the plane 'brigade' help with naval recon?

If a POP is over 3,000 a brigade can be recruited, over 6,000 2 brigades etc.

Air units are a land unit, they don't work too well on water.
 
Hm, do soldier POPs "grow", i.e. children bron into the soldier POPs? That could be a problem: say I have set my budget that I can support my 150k army, and that means I have a number of soldier POPs. Now, if children are "born" into these soldier POPs, I have way more soldiers than I actually want, and that's too expensive.

Or do people "move" into/out of more static soldier POPs, depending on the military budget?

Growth and migration, if you jack up the amry slider then more POPs will choose to become soldiers. Pay your soldiers poorly and htye will seek employment elsewhere.
 
Like everyone else I love the DD, but I also have questions. Three of them to be exact:

First one's kind of stupid but just to be sure: The DD uses the term brigade, but the screenshots mentions regiments. Am I correct in assuming these are used as synonyms here?
If units are tied so closely to their province, regiments is probably the best term, even though the number 3,000 corresponds better to a brigade.

Second one is about reinforcement: If a soldier POP from a regiment's native province is wiped out, does that mean I won't be able to reinforce that regiment anymore?

Third one, reinforcement again: How will reinforcement be handled? Like Vic1 (I hope not), EU3, HoI3 or an entirely new system?

Regiment and Brigade are synonyms

Yes

EU3 style, but scaled to the size of soldier POP and the ammount of brigades it is currently supporting.
 
Yes. It did not indicate whether there is a single military screen where I can recruit half a dozen regiments with half a dozen clicks OR do I have to go around all these provinces

When the military interface is done I'll be able to answer that question.
 
Won't that be a little problematic if during war time soldiers suddenly vanish in the middle of a battle?

I can understand desertions. But 3000 man deserting during combat and popping up in the other side of the Atlantic for example is a bit hard to explain...

Or did I miss something?

no but 30 soldiers a day for 100 days is a lot easier to explain.