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All the more reason to try things in game before theorycrafting. ;)
Correct,

Greetings Mechwarriors,

The Devs have twice specifically asked us to test these and THEN provide detailed AAR feedback.

Uninformed assumptions at this point provide no relevant feedback, are counter to OP request, and thus will be considered off-topic. It makes the Devs job harder to comb through such static in this particular thread for actual beta function feedback.

Beta game play feedback here please, not theory crafting.

Thank you
 
Color me in the Evasion was actually useful group..

It's even more useful now. Why? Because you can't just stay Bulwarked and keep shooting.

You can't just look at evasion in a vacuum. You can only compare it to the other options you have. You might have one evasion chevron less in this version than in the previous version, but the ones you do have left are more important than ever before, because you don't get Guarded when you stay in place while you keep shooting (and Guarded isn't as strong anymore, unless you're also in cover or have Bulwark). If you shoot, you move. Evasion is extremely useful now.
 
Hiya folks! The feedback that will be most useful at this point is if you jump over onto the beta branch and play with the abilities and give AARs of your experiences with them. We've done a huge amount of theorycrafting on this already, and what I really need is some serious hands-on investigation.

I would be more than happy to devote a great deal of time testing these... in multiplayer.

My concern in doing so is will the AAR I write have any meaningful impact on what is obviously changes that only have single player in mind?
 
Long time reader of the forums, although I created an account to post this.

For those of us who haven't participated in beta before, can you define (or link to definition (or vaguely gesture in the appropriate direction)) what a "detailed AAR" consists of?

I played one mission with the new settings. I was a lot more mobile than I am typically, but I can't tell if that's because the new skill set up encourages it, or because I was just trying out the new skills.
 
Correct,

Greetings Mechwarriors,

The Devs have twice specifically asked us to test these and THEN provide detailed AAR feedback.

Uninformed assumptions at this point provide no relevant feedback, are counter to OP request, and thus will be considered off-topic. It makes the Devs job harder to comb through such static in this particular thread for actual beta function feedback.

Thank you

One thing to realize is that for month's now there have been mods that have dealt with exactly the problem she is trying to solve. But i understand ur point
 
One thing to realize is that for month's now there have been mods that have dealt with exactly the problem she is trying to solve. But i understand ur point
There is a whole forum for posts not conforming to the requested format.
No excuse for clogging up the works here.

Please remember don't reply to yellow mod posts outside of pm. Site rules
 
So... my early impressions after a few missions. I started a new campaign just a couple of days ago, so I can only comment on the early game.

Lance:
  • Shadow Hawk frontliner, Bulwark + Breaching Shot
  • Hunchback sharpshooter (AC/5, 2xLL), Sure Footing + Breaching Shot
  • Centurion LRM platform, Sure Footing + Breaching Shot
  • Firestarter spotter/skirmisher, Sure Footing + Master Tactician
Well... it all seems so great. Combat is extremely mobile now. Your job is to destroy the OpForce, and to do that, you need to shoot, and if you shoot, you must keep moving. While in previous version of the game you commonly had a lance mostly staying bulwarked in place, now I find myself circling the enemy, constantly flanking, constantly trying to move from cover to cover while maintaining LOS to the target, avoiding enemy LOS while trying to keep optimal range. It feels dynamic the way a mech game is supposed to feel.

While you might not have quite as much evasion as in the previous version, it's more important now, because along with cover and good positioning it's the only thing that keeps you from being hurt. Jump jets don't automatically give you more evasion than walking, but you still benefit from them a lot, as you need to stay moving and they help you traverse the terrain and reach cover when there are obstacles.

Bulwark is still good, but only situationally. You need to brace occasionally, because shooting and jumping generates heat, and because sometimes you simply end up in positions where you can't avoid incoming damage.

I love that you can use Bulwark to approach the enemy with your tank, so that it draws the first salvos from them, which keeps them vulnerable for your follow-up attacks. This is a great alternative for simply (EDIT: where did the rest of this paragraph go? Fixed.) luring the enemy to you every time - a Vanguard feels like a real vanguard now, when moving in with a full lance is a tactic that actually works.

From my pilot skills you might think that Breaching Shot is incredibly useful, but it, too, is only situational. Enemies don't seem to brace all that much now, so I mostly use it against Cover with Multi-target or when I'm just trying to keep cool.

I'm not sure about Sure Footing when it comes to Entrenched - I haven't gotten to test that aspect of it yet - but with that extra pip just from walking it seems like an excellent choice for a lot of mechs. Bulwark is still better for tanking frontliners, I think, but for fire support and scouts and skirmishers Sure Footing seems like a great skill.


That's it so far. This is just a first impressions, but I'm really, really liking the changes so far. The game is a lot less static, movement matters a lot more and terrain is extremely important now, because cover actually makes a difference and you need to manage LOS and keep planning your movement ahead.

Good job, devs!
 
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Wowie zowie. Loaded up the beta. Loaded up my still working postgame saves. Shuffled some skills.

It takes SIX DAYS, for a max upgrades agro, with a 10 Guts pilot, to heal from burning your pilot alive once (I saved then abandoned at the first tick of real harm to test this in particular ASAP). So imagine this without being an endgame maxed out status to ever so much as look at this button.

"Aaaugh. Commander, I'm bleeding" Sorry Glitch. I had to do it for science.

Cockpit mods will tank the hits, but seeing how the literal first turn of combat I was in, the very first enemy attack landed a headshot? Yeah, burning cockpit HP bonuses for coolant is still silly.

Debuff Spam is also hilarious... For the AI. Two shreks and whoever had sensor lock chimingin every so often meant comedy like "4 tiles away with a 65% medium laser hit chance against a Zeus". And walking up point blank to a Shrek itself with one time resulted in a 60% hit changce with small lasers.

Don't worry though, a +++ Medium laser with +4 accuracy on a 10 Gunnery pilot will have.... 75% hit chance standing directly next to a tank in these circumstance. Once more, imagine this when you're not maxed out at the endgame.

My "stand still in the same spot all fight" mechs meanwhile... stand still in the same spot all fight and are still MVP. Because Bulwark isn't needed for the mechs that are best at standing still and shooting, while your hard working skirmishers are knocked about.

Stalker is all "Why is half the lance screaming? Everything seems fine to me!" While my Highlander and Grasshopper are reduced to Storm Trooper aim in close combat.

EDIT: Okay as stupid as coolant is, I'm also about honesty. Coolant has an exploit it seems?

I just did some more save/load juggling to stress test coolant.

The cockpit bonus health pip I lost, is BACK, after I loaded my save with her nice and shiny empy heat meter standing next to a zeus with it's rear cored out.

A bug is a bug. Even when the feature that is bugged is worse than a bug.
 
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well, before I got to try fighting with the new skills, I noticed that two of my pilots were bugged after the reset: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-1-2-beta-skills-not-reset-correctly.1116609/ one got all four base skills (multi-target, bulwark, sensor lock, sure footing), and the other shows bulwark+multi-target in the pilot list but only has multi-target when selected.

I'd recommend backing up your saves before you play around with a post-endgame career.
 
As for creating a "coolant flush" ability, I have to say "no" in the strongest terms possible. Heat management is an essential ingredient in balancing weapons and encouraging good gunnery tactics, and any ability that trivializes that balance pillar is bad for Battletech. Additionally, the main drawback to the coolant flush - pilot injury - is a major detriment to Campaign gameplay (pilots who can't fight and weeks of recovery time are major costs sinks) which makes the skill extremely unattractive for campaigns, but doesn't matter much for Skirmish fights, where being able to Alpha-Strike without risk of shutdown will likely be excessively powerful.
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I get the feeling somebody is really married to the idea of self harm on coolant. Or self harm in general because "But it's a TRADEOFF!" when... it really isn't.

Even with a postgame save amount of resources, it's just nasty. So imagine how questionable it would be in the earlier game when you have next to no upgrades, and can only afford a handful of pilots. More so with chain missions upcoming.

Whether you are using straight HP, or have a cockpit armor mod, it's just far too detrimental both the moment or potentially long term to be anything but a trap to trick people who don't know any better.

Well, unless you like hearing glitch scream in pain on command.

Hopefully the "Spray everything else with raw sewage, then claim the bad skill is actually good because it's not covered in liquid ****" method of rebalancing is not how coolant is approached.

I could easily see the passive heat threshold skills getting nerfed in an attempt to make coolant look big airquotes "appealing" if it were PGI making the game, rather than HBS.
 
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@HBS_Kiva, Ok I tried a few battles with the new abilities. Here's my thoughts on what I experienced. I'm gonna use one battle as an example:

A few caveats first:
  1. I tested this with neutral mind going in, and I played it in my normal style (some what min / max what I can get out of my abilities).
  2. My lance composition:
    • Shadow Hawk - AC 5 / SRM 6 / MLas - mobile skirmisher (Sure Footing / Ace Pilot + Fortify)
    • Shadow Hawk - 3 MLas / 2 Slas / 2 SRM 4's - my scout / sensor lock guy / brawler (Sure Footing / Ace Pilot + Sensor Lock)
    • Centurion - AC 5 / LRM 15 / 2 MLas - long range / front line mech (Fortify + Multi-Shot / Breaching Shot)
    • Centurion - AC 10 / SRM 6 / 2 MLas - front Line / brawler (Sure Footing + Fortify / Coolant)
  3. Enemies Had a Kintaro, firestarter, 3 locusts and a commando + 2 strikers
  4. Battle mission in polar biome.
Here's my thoughts:
  1. Fortify - Definitely a great improvement over Bulwark. The min / max in me wished it was back, but I was delighted in what it really did for me. I wouldn't say it's "better", but it improved my natural game play tendencies.
    • I found myself moving my 2 front line Centurions a lot more often, vs sitting there and tanking.
    • I alternated my front line mech, switching back and forth between who's bracing. When I did this, I constantly moved, and was mainly seeking forest for cover + fortify (75% reduction).
    • I kept moving my mechs, and the one tanking / bracing was able to absorb significant damage (75%)
    • Opinions / Suggestions: I love it. This is a keeper. However, I think it deserves the level 8 slot, versus 5, because at level 5 Guts, I will almost always choose this skill + 2 others (breaching / tactician / ace pilot).
  2. Sensor Lock - I like utility of +2 to hit penalty for enemy, but perhaps a different implementation?
    • I still use it as normal, at first gain LOS for my LRMs, then strip evasion off of lights.
    • Opinions / Suggestions: Instead of +2 to hit for the enemy, make it -2 to be hit (easier to hit by your teammates). This way, your team members can take full advantage of the mech that is sensor locked. Having the PPC-esque effect makes me feel like I'm using a make-shift guardian ECM unit messing with their sensors.
  3. Sure Footing - I really didn't find that to be as useful.
    • I was no where in danger of ever being unstable - Granted, enemies only had light missile coverage (LRM locust, 2 strikers and a Kintaro).
    • I couldn't test heavier units, as I'm early / mid game, and only have mediums. It maybe more useful in higher difficulty battles, but generally, I would also be in heavier mechs.
    • Opinions / Suggestions: I think the piloting tree should absolutely focus on making evasion significantly more useful. Previous issue with bulwark, besides all of the discussed OPness already, is that other skills aren't as useful. This will accomplish 2 things:
      • If Evasive movement, and Ace pilot confers significant improvements to evasion (I know you can get +2 at level 10 piloting), then it will make it as useful as Fortify, otherwise, as game progresses, I'm absolutely still going to choose fortify. Then the only reason to even bother with this, is so I can combine Fortify with Ace pilot, thus having to take Sure footing.
      • If evasion is significantly better, lights and mediums all of a sudden becomes a lot more useful in late game as well. They will be a lot harder to hit, thus fulfilling their hit and run / recon tactics. This is hard to do now, as they loose evasion so quickly.
  4. Coolant - I honestly did not use this at all. Again, I'm only early mid game, and I generally build my mechs fairly cool, with a few exceptions.
    • I was not able to test this, so just my opinions here.
    • I'm hoping it's usage does not eat up a turn like sensor lock. If that's the case, then I will consider using it when situations calls for it. EDIT: this was answered for me in a later post.
    • Opinions: I really think if implemented, Coolant and Fortify should be swapped (Coolant lvl 5 Guts, Fortify lvl 8 guts). Even if I can cool off 100% and still fire in same turn, it will be a very situational ability. I'm also very limited on its use due to injuries taken. Because of this, I cannot justify spending this much XP on a 1 to 2 trick pony. I'm much better off going Fortify + ace / breaching / tactician. This will lead to the same situation Bulwark is in right now (even if Fortify makes me move more).
    • Suggestions: I think Juggernaut still carries value, especially in early game. There's so many times with my light / medium lance that knocking a high damage dealing enemy to 1 initiative later have saved my day. I get in late game, with assualts, it's not as useful. My previous suggestion was to allow Juggernaut to confer fortify, IF fortify was a skill already chosen (of course requires swapping lvl 5 / 8 for those skills). This makes Juggernaut a natural skill to take along with Fortify, and also gives the player further incentive to move their mechs. It also makes the Juggernaut worthy in late game, as it confers Fortify when you melee
I'm sorry I wasn't able to do extensive plays with this, since I don't have a late game save. Hope this has been helpful.

Once again appreciate the work yall put in!
 
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Ganimal, the one good thing about coolant is that it does not, in fact, eat up your turn to use.

Not that it makes it worth it. I can only imagine what the hospital stay for deliberately burning your pilots alive will add up to in the early to mid game.

Your repair time increase for eating a non shutdown inducing overheat will probably remain much faster even as early as your first argo upgrades.

People love to chant "Kill the meat, save the metal"

But time is money. And Pilots are your bigger time investment compared to pirates just spilling free zeus mechs left and right at your feet.

Steel is weak. Flesh is strong. Praise the wisdom of Thulsa Doom.
 
Ganimal, the one good thing about coolant is that it does not, in fact, eat up your turn to use.

Not that it makes it worth it. I can only imagine what the hospital stay for deliberately burning your pilots alive will add up to in the early to mid game.

Ah thanks for clarifying, I should have just clicked it when I was playing, but totally forgot lol.
 
Edit: I hope we'll get the ability to respecc the abilities of our mechwarriors in existing saves when these changes go live, because 80% of my pilots are going to be somewhat useless :p
More good news on that front. I had a shiny "We reset all your skill trees get spending" message waiting for me when I loaded up the beta.

Though it's reset back to how they started, not fully blank slates as far as I could tell.

But then, I was also main branch and just opted into the beta tonight. So I don't know how that will impact people who were ALREADY in the beta?
 
100% this. Why put a pilot into sickbay for 2 weeks for an extra alpha strike when I can have them gain initiative or move after shooting? It's not even competitive.
If I remember right, before launch the hospital stay times were jacked up at the last second.

Isn't Dekker in enough nonstop pain already without people deliberately burning the flesh from his body for "Tactical reasons"?
 
King Crab with a high-Piloting & Evasive Maneuver pilot and a +3 "hit defense" gyro is actually pretty hard for the OpFor to hit in PVE.
Hi man,

I think you made some good points here.

I tried KC with max jj and gyro +3hitdef and it seems that it is not so easy to get hit by the OpFor.

The problem is that it will be easier for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, etc OpFor to hit the KC as each attack erodes the one point of evasive charge. (chevron)
 
Hey all,
Thank you all for the awesome feedback you are sending us here, It's really appreciated. Besides the hands-on impressions from actual gameplay that Kiva asked for, please let us know what you think about the Dev Diary format as well!

Cheers,
 
I don't understand the logic behind this at all. Guarded already reduces damage by 50%! How much more do you need! Jump + brace is already very overpowered compared to other methods of moving around and makes it very, very easy to close the distance on long range mechs. Are you sure making this strategy even more powerful is really a step in the right direction?

Guarded reduces damage by 25% now, same as Cover. You can get to 75% DR if you have Bulwark, you Brace and you're in Cover - but then you can't shoot, so it's only for occasional tanking and dropping heat.

Jump + Brace is only more powerful than before if you manage to do it while staying Cover, which is not a given, and because Bulwark isn't quite as universally useful as it was before, this means you're giving up some other skill that might be relatively more useful now than before. Almost all the skills seem quite competitive now, though I haven't made up my mind on Coolant Vent yet (and to be honest, I'm not a big fan of the concept).
 
Hey all,
Thank you all for the awesome feedback you are sending us here, It's really appreciated. Besides the hands-on impressions from actual gameplay that Kiva asked for, please let us know what you think about the Dev Diary format as well!

Cheers,
Hi Emma

This Dev Diary format is excellent.

It is really a godsend because it allows HBS to interact will the playerbase.

You can immediately get feedback whether the players will like or not like the game mechanic changes.

You can also get many ideas from the players for developing the game.

It is really good and I hope you guys continue with this. Thanks!!! :)
 
Just played a couple missions (4.5 star and 5 star) and got my butt handed to me. Game got *a lot* harder with these changes!

The AI still outnumbers you at least two to one, so not having the ability to stand your ground and fire at them anymore is pretty dramatic. One of the maps I've played was a martian biome with basically no cover.
The vent heat ability definitely came in handy, but two of my pilots landed themselves in the medbay for 30 days each after using it 5 times. And that's with a fully upgraded Argo.
Not my definition of fun.