Developed Provinces Subtraction from Liberty Desire Problem

[Diamonder]

I am playing a game of EU4 and i look at the liberty desire of one of my neighboring nations to see if i can separate their colony off to make their nation weaker but then I see their subject has 0 liberty desire even though it controls 1/4 of the US area, I look closer and see that the liberty desire has a -209.8% modifier from "Developed Provinces" I am very confused, help?

 

[Johan]

The overlord have been developing in the subject, which reduces LD

 

[Incompetent]

The overlord have been developing in the subject, which reduces LD

It also means a small AI overlord can and will burn through its mana to hold onto a large and well-developed subject, which becomes that much more juicy when you annex the overlord and claim the subject as your own

 

[Diamonder]

thanks guys!

 

[JoeSteel]

It also means a small AI overlord can and will burn through its mana to hold onto a large and well-developed subject, which becomes that much more juicy when you annex the overlord and claim the subject as your own

If the player is a subject with high LD will the AI develop them?

 

[Indigo Blue]

If the player is a subject with high LD will the AI develop them?

Yup. France got a PU over me while i was getting the Ironprice achievement. He spent about 10 points to drop my LD below 50.

 

[skauld]

The overlord have been developing in the subject, which reduces LD

Isn't -210% LD from development equivalent to developing more than 40 times? Under what circumstances would the AI do this @Chaingun ?

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

thanks guys!

Developing in subjects nations is a time-bomb; it gives you a very small LD reduction every time you develop them but it also increases their medium/long term LD and time needed to annex them. IMO this is a thing only for an emergency like when you are integrating them and you have no other means to keep them loyal.

 

[siegeforvictory]

I think it makes sense the ai tries to prevent rebellious CN's/vassals, but imo it's a bit too much now. it used to be common to see CN's breaking away from their overlord at the end of the game(>1750 or so), opening up new strategic/diplomatic oppurtunities in the americas. but now every CN stays at 0 LD right till the end, the only formable countries from CN's I've seen lately was from weak colonisers that got completely obliterated in europe(like scotland/noway/brittany, and one time portugal who got annexed by castille). but even if they can hold onto a little european land but don't get into war all the time, like norway only controlling iceland, they can easily keep multiple CN's below 50 LD.

 

[Diamonder]

Developing in subjects nations is a time-bomb; it gives you a very small LD reduction every time you develop them but it also increases their medium/long term LD and time needed to annex them. IMO this is a thing only for an emergency like when you are integrating them and you have no other means to keep them loyal.

How long does this "time-bomb" last for?

 

[Magnificent Genius]

How long does this "time-bomb" last for?

Forever. LD is increased by total development. So you get a temporary reduction in LD but it will in the long run go up.

 

[Indigo Blue]

Forever. LD is increased by total development. So you get a temporary reduction in LD but it will in the long run go up.

Yes it makes it a a little more expensive. But for an early vassalage of the Persians where the turks are struggling to stay just ahead of the curve it makes a lot of sense. And each development point adds only 8 to the annexation cost - or usually like 4 if you've gone influence and administrative.

 

[Diamonder]

Forever. LD is increased by total development. So you get a temporary reduction in LD but it will in the long run go up.

Thank you for the information sir.

 

[skauld]

Developing in subjects nations is a time-bomb; it gives you a very small LD reduction every time you develop them but it also increases their medium/long term LD and time needed to annex them. IMO this is a thing only for an emergency like when you are integrating them and you have no other means to keep them loyal.

It's slightly better than feeding. Developing reduces LD by 5% which decays at 0.1% per month. Grant Province reduces LD by 0.5% per development. Both will increase permanent LD by 0.25% per development. In terms of reducing LD, developing vassals is super strong. As you say though it means you are dumping mana into subject and it means you have to pay more dip later to annex.

 

[pikaemperor]

It's slightly better than feeding. Developing reduces LD by 5% which decays at 0.1% per month. Grant Province reduces LD by 0.5% per development. Both will increase permanent LD by 0.25% per development. In terms of reducing LD, developing vassals is super strong. As you say though it means you are dumping mana into subject and it means you have to pay more dip later to annex.

But generally vassals are used to annex land from others, so feeding makes more sense than developing them. Self developing also lowers their LD by making you stronger, so developing vassals is questionable in a way.

 

[skauld]

But generally vassals are used to annex land from others, so feeding makes more sense than developing them. Self developing also lowers their LD by making you stronger, so developing vassals is questionable in a way.

Developing yourself will reduce their LD by a miniscule amount. Developing their land will reduce it by 5%. You get 0.25% increase in LD permanently and -5% decrease decaying at 0.1 per month, which means their LD is reduced for 4 years after developing. If you develop 10 times, you decrease their liberty desire by 50%, increase their Force Limit by 1 and increase annexation cost by 44 dip mana (with Vassal Integration Act). You also burn some 500 mana. I really think that the only really noteworthy things going on there are the LD decrease and the mana spending.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

Self developing also lowers their LD by making you stronger, so developing vassals is questionable in a way.

But it usually has much less immediate effect than developing the vassal (3k overlord with -5 prestige and a 320 dev, 93% integrated disloyal vassal rings a bell? ); with that said developing in subjects land is a very poor use for mana which can also be counterproductive because all it does in the long term is to increase their LD. Like I said before IMHO this feature is only suitable for emergencies.