[DevBlog #11] 2e DB

[frout]

DevBlog says about Leclerc in North Africa :

Forming four patrols of a dozen (South African) armored cars supported by light bombers, Leclerc unleashed them in the desert: they fought a “pirate war”, navigating the dunes and striking convoys, isolated posts, supply depots, … not unlike privateers on the ocean back in the age of sails.

General Koenig's First Free French Division which fought against Rommel during the battle of Bir Hakeim (1942) used such patrols in the desert to harass the enemy. Part of the British Eighth Army, those Free French soldiers called those patrols "Jock columns" after Lieutenant Colonel "Jock" Campbell who commanded such columns and might have made them up (or... not) : columns with about 100 men, artillery, tracked vehicles, AA (but no aircraft ?) ("colonnes mobiles" in french).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_column

Former Free French soldiers talk about their Jock columns in the desert (in french) from 10'06 to 12'30 :

Interesting to learn that in Normandy :

Having learned his lessons from 1940 and the desert war, Leclerc used speed and maneuvers (including by misappropriating roads reserved for his American counterparts) over direct confrontation whenever he could to keep the Germans always off-balance.

 

[Sir A Harris]

Baby has a temper tantrum ? Shhh, Mama Eugen gonna feed you with the other divisions ASAP.

not really, 'mama eugen' is failing to deliver in my opinion, for allies alone they gave us the following:
101st Airborne(American)
6th Airborne (British)
3rd Canadian Infantry
1st Polish Armored
2nd French Armored
15th Infantry (British/Scottish)
2nd Infantry (American)
3rd Armoured (American)
1st Guards Armoured (British)

But left out allllll of these:
- 3rd Infantry (British) (very interesting fielding its anti tank regiments with mainly M10s and arty units with M7s, also sported the use of plenty of sherman crabs and DDs as well as commandos (a british unique unit) as well as a collection of avres and even Centaur IV close support tanks)
- 43rd Infantry (British) (considered one of the BEST divisions of WWII by military officials... and you left this one out?!)
- 49th Infantry (British) (this one isn't a unique division more a standardized one)
- 50th Infantry (British) (during Normandy this very heavily war experienced division was given a huge number of amphibious Valentines and Sherman DDS, during DDAY alone this division got 1 V.C, 32 medals, 3 distinguished conduct medals, 15 military crosses, 5 distinguished service orders, of which, one was a bar, this division was also noted of fighting the Panzer Lehr division twice and the 12th SS Panzer once(both of those divisions are in-game))
- 51st Infantry (British) (literally the division fighting for Colombelles, A MAP WE ALL PLAY ON, but, this division was a sub par division in terms of performance and equipment)
- 53rd Infantry (British) (this one is another generic, but did manage to take just under a prisoner for each causality(which were heavy))
- 59th Infantry (British) (named by Monty as one of his most reliable divisions)
- 7th Armoured (British) (desert rats, need I say more)
- 11th Armoured (British) (worlds oldest tank division)
- 79th Armoured (British) (this could have been more interesting as a specialized armour(also - used a secret weapon) as well as had plenty built for amphibious assault)
- 1st Infantry (American)
- 4th Infantry (American)
- 5th Infantry (American)
- 8th Infantry (American)
- 9th Infantry (American)
- 28th Infantry (American) (one person reminded me of hellcats, a quick bit of research shown that 630th Tank Destroyer Battalion was attached to this unit, this Battalion was equipped with the M18 Gun Motor Carriage (or Hellcat for scrubs) and it was this battalion that destroyed 53 tanks and 15 self propelled guns while loosing only 17 Hellcats in July, 1944)
- 29th Infantry (American)
- 30th Infantry (American)
- 35th Infantry (American)
- 79th Infantry (American)
- 80th Infantry (American)
- 83rd Infantry (American)
- 90th Infantry (American)
- 82nd Airborne (American)
- 2nd Armoured (American)
- 4th Armoured (American)
- 5th Armoured (American)
- 6th Armoured (American)
- 7th Armoured (American)
- 2nd Canadian Division (the most successful beach landing..... fitted with 5 AT batteries, 5 AA batteries and 12 artillery regiments/batteries, the 12th SS Panzer was this divisions main adversary)
- 4th Canadian Armoured Division (its canadian armoured, not canadian infantry I guess)

(I don't know much about yanks, so, please feel free to fill me in, quote the division explain what made them unique, or even if they were just a standard, and I shall edit that in)

As for the Germans they had 39 divisions in normandy, 39..... not 9, in addition, as far as I am aware, that's just the Reich, I have no idea about Italian or other Axis faction members involvement..

The lack of the special brigades and regiments not linked to a division and instead just to a Corps or Army doesn't bother me, its the fact they have focused on divisions and only did less than a quarter of them

I hope they don't think about charging £15.99 for a pair or £7.99 for one, given the price of the full game as it is and the seriously empty list of in-game divisions for the actual invasion of normandy itself. I'd hope these are at least free add ons for the first 20 or so divisions, they can charge then for the rest. (disagreeing with this as a heads up is you telling eugen its fine for that behavior as a heads up, providing a part of a game and selling you the rest as 'dlc')

 

[Steeperman]

not really, 'mama eugen' is failing to deliver in my opinion, for allies alone they gave us the following:
101st Airborne(American)
6th Airborne (British)
3rd Canadian Infantry
1st Polish Armored
2nd French Armored
15th Infantry (British/Scottish)
2nd Infantry (American)
3rd Armoured (American)
1st Guards Armoured (British)

But left out allllll of these:
3rd Infantry (British)
43rd Infantry (British)
49th Infantry (British)
50th Infantry (British)
51st Infantry (British)
53rd Infantry (British)
59th Infantry (British)
7th Armoured (British)
11th Armoured (British)
79th Armoured (British) (this could have been more interesting as a specialized armour)
1st Infantry (American)
4th Infantry (American)
5th Infantry (American)
8th Infantry (American)
9th Infantry (American)
28th Infantry (American)
29th Infantry (American)
30th Infantry (American)
35th Infantry (American)
79th Infantry (American)
80th Infantry (American)
83rd Infantry (American)
90th Infantry (American)
82nd Airborne (American)
2nd Armoured (American)
4th Armoured (American)
5th Armoured (American)
6th Armoured (American)
7th Armoured (American)
2nd Canadion Division
4th Canadian Armoured Division


As for the Germans they had 39 divisions in normandy, 39..... not 9, in addition, as far as I am aware, that's just the Reich, I have no idea about Italian or other Axis faction members involvement..

The lack of the special brigades and regiments not linked to a division and instead just to a Corps or Army doesn't bother me, its the fact they have focused on divisions and only did less than a quarter of them

I hope they don't think about charging £15.99 for a pair or £7.99 for one, given the price of the full game as it is and the seriously empty list of in-game divisions for the actual invasion of normandy itself. I'd hope these are at least free add ons for the first 20 or so divisions, they can charge then for the rest.

So what?
All these other american and british divisions wouldn't have been significantly different, besides (maybe) the one you have highlighted. Furthermore, mods will most probably have the ability, to switch some existing units around and create missing divisions by implementing other divisional emblems. Where is the problem? Having a french, polish and canadien division ads much more flavor, than only having american and british divisions into the game.

 

[Sir A Harris]

So what?
All these other american and british divisions wouldn't have been significantly different, besides (maybe) the one you have highlighted. Furthermore, mods will most probably have the ability, to switch some existing units around and create missing divisions by implementing other divisional emblems. Where is the problem? Having a french, polish and canadien division ads much more flavor, than only having american and british divisions into the game.

whats the flavour with the french one other than a mix of US and british?

as a heads up I can give a good reason in one sentance of why for each of the missing british armoured divisions

 

[Steeperman]

whats the flavour with the french one other than a mix of US and british?

- They are not americans or british, like most of the divisions, that where in Normanndy (voices, names and look of units ad flavor)
- They had an organic TD battalion attached to them and therefor much M10s ingame
- Very strong in Phase A, being increasingly outmatched by other Divisions
- Some special units, like Bofors AA mounted on a GMC truck, M4A2 Shermans, Nueve infantry squad (consists out of spanish volunteers, who even fought in spanish civil war and have an MG 42 attached to them)

All of these Infos are to be found in the dev diary about the 2e DB and the livestream, where they played with this division.

 

[axnone]

As for the Axis, what do they have in 1944? Japan is having a hard time themselves, let alone helping Europe, Romania/Bulgaria busy fending off hordes of Russians. Italy, you say? in 1944 Italy still fightng? LOL.

You could see that the devs are trying to make the 2e DB different, not just some downgraded US armoured division. 2 star infantry and .50 cal mg squad at phase A? Now those are something. Not to mention smoke bombers.

 

[Wulfburk]

To be fair there were italian divisions fighting on both sides in the italian campaign in 1944 werent there?


But yes of course there werent any italian, or actually any other than german divisions in normandy 1944. So of course, out of all the divisions in game, them all will be german as it should be. And really if you are expecting them to add all 40 or so allied and 39 german divisions in game.... You gotta have your priorities checked. Im pretty suere everyone would prefer to keep 9x9 in normandy while adding other battles, like the bulge/veritable or other theatres like in north africa or the eastern front.

 

[safe-keeper]

of course the frenchies release a french armoured divisions as a sodding 'surprise'

I hope to god I see them retreating....

What irritates me most of all is that clearly the person making decisions of 'what division to be released next' is brain-dead, it should have been either a german infantry or allied paratrooper....

What annoys me more is this unwritten rule that the US has to be in every single war game released, even Battlefield 1 had them, at the expense of the French, no less.

If I was playing the beta, I would be glad to see more countries represented .

I do like how all phase A aggression is associated with 'cheese rush' play. It says a lot about how people approach the game, and then complain that the game is too samey when they don't push in phase A.

Reminds me of how people who picked the Support class in World in Conflict would often just sit there with arty and then complain Support was boring. As if your other duties -- repairs, mortars, transport and so on, didn't exist. The few times I tried Support I found it hectic and challenging as heck, due to the sheer amount of stuff you had to do .

Often it's how you approach a game that makes the difference, not how the game itself is made .

 

[evilcat]

2e could be interesting, since it is aproach to armour division but more on light vehicles.
It doesnt really have big AP guns so how it deals with kittens is to be answeared.
If balance problems occure there is always the option to just cutting its income to 105/105/105
This division asks to get +2 in phase A, so having more agrresive critical % is needed. More like 51/56/61/66/71...

There are people who want serious play from phase A so here comes division for them.

BTW there is a problem of phase A having only 9 tics so do something about it.

101 Airborne would be interesting, not becouse it is posterboy but to have comparison (or alternative) to 91st LL. In similar way pure infantry for Axis would be welcome.

Old division still have issues with 12th SS having too little income in C, Stugs and P4 being overpriced. AVRE still sporting unicorn hide. and tripods on steroids.
So even if 2e is perfectly fine it will look as OP/derp in comparison to the old ones.

 

[Steeperman]

So even if 2e is perfectly fine it will look as OP/derp in comparison to the old ones.

I would doubt that, when you compare it to the 12th SS. No unicorns sighted till now and compared to 3rd AD, no mobile shield to block Panthers. We will have to see, how the 2e DB and ist Sherman and M10 "hordes" do against Panthers...

 

[frout]

The lack of the special brigades and regiments not linked to a division and instead just to a Corps or Army doesn't bother me, its the fact they have focused on divisions

Why ? Focusing on divisions seem quite logical in a RTS game as a division in modern militaries :

(...) tends to be the smallest combined arms unit capable of independent operations; this is due to its self-sustaining role as a unit with a range of combat troops and suitable combat support forces, which can be arranged into various organic combinations. (from Wikipedia used to get around my poor English )

COH uses the same idea of combined arms unit in a less historical way.

In SD 44, that unit matches the size of the map.

How could devs implement autonomous Special service brigades or commandos in the current game, mixing groups of 100-1000 soldiers (commandos/brigades) and groups of 10 000-30 000 ones (divisions) ? You would end up micromanaging one single infantry unit on the field when playing a Special Service unit...

 

[Sir A Harris]

Why ? Focusing on divisions seem quite logical in a RTS game as a division in modern militaries :

there was more to that sentence......

you literally were putting words in my mouth, that was not in the slightest bit what I was saying, go back and finish reading the sentence

 

[frout]

there was more to that sentence......

you literally were putting words in my mouth, that was not in the slightest bit what I was saying, go back and finish reading the sentence

I don't think so. But I might misunderstood your post. Here is the end of your sentence :

The lack of the special brigades and regiments not linked to a division and instead just to a Corps or Army doesn't bother me, its the fact they have focused on divisions and only did less than a quarter of them

which seems to mean that what bothers you are two things :
1) "the fact they have focused on divisions"
2) "and only did less than a quarter of them"

Point n° 2 has been replied above by another poster.
In my post, I replied to point n°1. Sorry if I made a mistake.

 

[Sir A Harris]

I don't think so. But I might misunderstood your post. Here is the end of your sentence :

which seems to mean that what bothers you are two things :
1) "the fact they have focused on divisions"
2) "and only did less than a quarter of them"

Point n° 2 has been replied above by another poster.
In my post, I replied to point n°1. Sorry if I made a mistake.

The add is an inclusive 'and', if it was exclusive then I would of put 'in addition' or something along the lines.

What annoys me more is this unwritten rule that the US has to be in every single war game released, even Battlefield 1 had them, at the expense of the French, no less.

If I was playing the beta, I would be glad to see more countries represented .


Reminds me of how people who picked the Support class in World in Conflict would often just sit there with arty and then complain Support was boring. As if your other duties -- repairs, mortars, transport and so on, didn't exist. The few times I tried Support I found it hectic and challenging as heck, due to the sheer amount of stuff you had to do .

Often it's how you approach a game that makes the difference, not how the game itself is made .

I refused to touch BF1, historically inaccurate and a general pile of garbage.
The US kind of has to be in this game(SDN44) though, they did provide excellent cannon fodder (its a joke yanks) But the US did do a decent share

 

[Steeperman]

I refused to touch BF1, historically inaccurate and a general pile of garbage.
The US kind of has to be in this game(SDN44) though, they did provide excellent cannon fodder (its a joke yanks) But the US did do a decent share

And nobody could say, that the USA didn't have done a very big effort against Nazi- Germany and the liberation of France.
But why having more and more american and british Divisions, that don't differ much from one another, when there are more interesting ones, like polish, french and canadien Divisions?

 

[Sir A Harris]

And nobody could say, that the USA didn't have done a very big effort against Nazi- Germany and the liberation of France.
But why having more and more american and british Divisions, that don't differ much from one another, when there are more interesting ones, like polish, french and canadien Divisions?

I altered my list of the british/canadian ones that would differ from others (both tactics and generally why they would be unique) while saying which ones would be more generic and less interesting

 

[Karlburg]

I altered my list of the british/canadian ones that would differ from others (both tactics and generally why they would be unique) while saying which ones would be more generic and less interesting

I suppose british fanboys gotta be fanboys.

 

[Sir A Harris]

I suppose french fanboys gotta be fanboys.

nothing there is false xD and is a legitimate reason, fanboyism has nothing to do with it, and rather than you children disagreeing for the sake of it, at last make a statement of a reason why beside 'Commonwealth and US involvement in the war is over rated' or that just because its a second division of the same type somehow that means its exactly the same.

For the love of odin validate....

 

[Graphic]

nothing there is false xD and is a legitimate reason, fanboyism has nothing to do with it, and rather than you children disagreeing for the sake of it, at last make a statement of a reason why beside 'Commonwealth and US involvement in the war is over rated' or that just because its a second division of the same type somehow that means its exactly the same.

For the love of odin validate....

Why is it more interesting to have only US and UK divisions on the allied side? When there are perfectly usable divisions from other allied divisions with interesting unit differences. Divisions should be allotted on a combination of noteworthiness and uniqueness, not just the former. And definitely not as some kind of just due for being from one of the two main allied countries. That's petty.

Since you admit you don't know a lot about "the yanks", almost every US division of the same type is cookie cutter identical, the only leeway being if they tested something or got something a few months before another division. That's why we got 2nd Infantry with the Xylophone. If they add the 29th, it'll just be 2nd Infantry without a Xylophone. Not very exciting, is it? I'll take the French division instead which is actually different in spite of ostensibly being based on a US armored TO&E.

 

[Sir A Harris]

Why is it more interesting to have only US and UK divisions on the allied side? When there are perfectly usable divisions from other allied divisions with interesting unit differences. Divisions should be allotted on a combination of noteworthiness and uniqueness, not just the former. And definitely not as some kind of just due for being from one of the two main allied countries. That's petty.

Since you admit you don't know a lot about "the yanks", almost every US division of the same type is cookie cutter identical, the only leeway being if they tested something or got something a few months before another division. That's why we got 2nd Infantry with the Xylophone. If they add the 29th, it'll just be 2nd Infantry without a Xylophone. Not very exciting, is it? I'll take the French division instead which is actually different in spite of ostensibly being based on a US armored TO&E.

That's not my point, its that there were many interesting divisions, but they (eugen) ignored practically all of them, or prioritized wrong.(In addition) I literally just edited my post on divisions as someone enlightened me about one US weapon and I found it to be in the 28th infantry, with quite an achievement under its belt and will be a unit completely missing from the game.

I under-stand many may be exactly the same, and I'm more than happy to have those that weren't unique in any shape or form pointed out to me for me to add that as a comment.

But as for those that were special with either unique equipment, heavily experienced soldiers or divisions with extreme merit (or even all of the previous in one) they should have been included in the full game