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Me_

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Please, please don't forget to make Israel actually gaing de jure land in Israel.

Also, I'd say it's great to have some quality of life changes added. I think it may actually make me more happy than DLC content. The last few DLC certainly did not excite me.
 

Fimconte

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Something I've found annoying, and written hacky mods to make closer to my preference, is De-Jure assimilation.
If we could instead designate a title to be assimilated into another so the De-Jure drift was based on that designation rather than the primary title of who owns it then it'll eventually become De-Jure and not of note, and could be flagged as not interesting while it's being assimilated.
Unless Duchies start being allowed to drift (might be interesting to allow it if explicitly designated) this won't fix the Create Duchy spam.
Duchies can already drift into kingdom titles, and under specific (and optimal, for liege levy maximization) conditions, Empires. See here.

I like the idea of a checkbox you can click to stop the "you can create a title" tooltip.

I think the duchy limit is fine. It creates a dilemma between being an independent duke with many weak direct vassals, or creating a kingdom title with few, but powerful direct vassals. If the duchy limit applied to dukes there would be no dilemma, being king would always be better. On the other hand, with no duchy limit, viceroyalties become useless.
There's no dilemma.
Creating extra duchies over counts hits you with a -20 opinion from the counts, this is not optimal.
There's also no reason why you must create duchies for all your counts as a King.
In fact, properly setup dukes provide incredible strategic flexibility and provides up to 2x (3x in certain cases) larger liege levy contributions from counts outside your de jure empire/kingdom.
Thus until Liege Levy mechanics are reworked (or rebalanced), there's almost no mechanical reason to go for anything except three hyper-dukes, due to liege levy calculations being based of your direct vassals capital.

Not to mention the fact that becoming a king opens up ducal claim pushing which can be very useful, especially for Christians (Orthodox in particular).

I haven't played many games where I was multi-emperor but I didn't even know there was an opinion penalty. Uniting empires by inheritance is one of my late-game challenges, but I don't succeed often.
There's no "extra" opinion penalty, just the normal "desires Empire of X -20".

Several Duchies: Maybe I've got this wrong, but characters generate tech points starting at duke tier, yes? Why would you not want as many duke vassals as possible unless you're in an incredibly weak position? Higher tiers typically mean a better position to accumulate money, as well, which means vassals are more capable of developing their domains, themselves. You can let emperors have 4 duchies if you want. If I have a strong empire on the go, I'll never hold more than one duchy.
Vassal tech growth is incredibly slow and largely irrelevant, as the AI invests its techpoints in a uniform manner, instead of doing the smart thing and focusing on key techs of Castle Infrastructure and Improved Keeps. Tech really needs another rework/tweak (far more so than title creation...).
Also, due to liege levy mechanics I mentioned above, you'd gain far more troops from a mechanically optimal three hyper-duke setup, than you would from some dukes being able to build a few extra buildings.
 

PK_AZ

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I like you. Any chances you'll be in CK3 team?
 

Baron of Red

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Kind of off topic, but is there a chance the dev's would be able to custom a titular designer (like ruler designer)? Duchies don't always the prettiest of symbols or colors when transitioning to a kingdom :confused:
 

Snow Crystal

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Kind of off topic, but is there a chance the dev's would be able to custom a titular designer (like ruler designer)? Duchies don't always the prettiest of symbols or colors when transitioning to a kingdom :confused:

I'd say it is extremely unlikely, but yes. I agree. It can be really annoying and frustrating. I sadly think it is just something we have to live with.
 

vandevere

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Kind of off topic, but is there a chance the dev's would be able to custom a titular designer (like ruler designer)? Duchies don't always the prettiest of symbols or colors when transitioning to a kingdom :confused:

I wouldn't mind being able to choose from a palette of colors when transitioning from a Duchy to a Kingdom. In 867, my favorite start is Wessex, and since I have Charly, I can create custom Kingdoms.

But, when I do that, the color seems to be different every time. Sometimes, it's almost magenta, which I like. But the other two are either a very pale washed-out pink, or something which is almost the color of vomit. :(

I would love to be able to choose the color I have to look at while playing...
 

Snow Crystal

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I wouldn't mind being able to choose from a palette of colors when transitioning from a Duchy to a Kingdom. In 867, my favorite start is Wessex, and since I have Charly, I can create custom Kingdoms.

But, when I do that, the color seems to be different every time. Sometimes, it's almost magenta, which I like. But the other two are either a very pale washed-out pink, or something which is almost the color of vomit. :(

I would love to be able to choose the color I have to look at while playing...

Strictly speaking, a CoA designer would take a lot of time, and you'd need a good chunk of coding and art for it, and the rest of the game would suffer for it. The alternative solution here is CoA scripting, but that will probably be a bit buggy, so .. I heavily doubt it will be something we'll look at, sadly.
 

vandevere

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Strictly speaking, a CoA designer would take a lot of time, and you'd need a good chunk of coding and art for it, and the rest of the game would suffer for it. The alternative solution here is CoA scripting, but that will probably be a bit buggy, so .. I heavily doubt it will be something we'll look at, sadly.

Funny thing is that the colors seem to be random. I've gotten the magenta one play through, and Pink two or three times in a row. That pale vomit-toned thing...I reload if I get that; and then I'll get either pink of magenta.

Weird...
 

Snow Crystal

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Funny thing is that the colors seem to be random. I've gotten the magenta one play through, and Pink two or three times in a row. That pale vomit-toned thing...I reload if I get that; and then I'll get either pink of magenta.

Weird...

I thought the Charlemagne decision just grabbed the colour of your previous area, and went with that one. Hm, that is weird.
 

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The simplest, most elegant solution to this problem at a ducal level, which also addresses another problem that has gone unoticed all these years, is to make duchies which have ALL their counties be part of the ruler's personal demesne not count towards said ruler's ducal title limit. As it stands, the system HEAVILY disincentivizes you from forming the ducal titles associated with your core lands, that is, the duchy directly surrounding your capital [at least if you are the sort of player that chooses to control every county in your capital duchy]. That is illogical, seeing as those are the titles that should be associated with the ruler the most, and yet game logic dictates for them to sit uncreated or destroyed, in favor instead of creating marginal duchies where the ruler does not hold all counties, or perhaps even no county at all, for the sake of vassal management.

To make the ducal title limit only count for partially controlled duchies would not be unbalanced, seeing as it would still depend upon another, generally very limited "resource" [the ruler's demesne limit], and its only practical effect would be to properly incentivize the creation of until-now neglected Core Lands titles.

Please consider this fact as you address this issue.
 

vandevere

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I thought the Charlemagne decision just grabbed the colour of your previous area, and went with that one. Hm, that is weird.

Apparently there are three shades, and you get one of the three when you create the Custom Kingdom of Wessex...
 

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First of all, I don't mind the title creation button at the top. It's there. Doesn't bother me. Then again I like the idea of corporating title creation into the decision area.
I really do like the incorporation of multiple same rank titles into one. King of Germany and Italia sounds better than having to switch primary titles. If you can sort out what happens on succession, great.

on a side note

1. a scaling number of duchies without suffering a malus seems like a very good idea. Quite frankly I'd rather have a number of counties attached to your personal demesne. I mean, that's how it works anyway, isn't it? I can hold two duchies in Ireland with two counties each and be at the limit, or I could be in Baghdad and hold two duchies with like 10 or 11 counties. So why not get rid of that max. number of de jure duchies and have the demesne tied to counties? The title alone doesn't hold any power unless you hold the counties within it.

2. like another user said, the flavour of being a King or Emperor got lost when nomads became emperors and kings. Please just take it down a notch. Make Khagans kings and khans dukes.
 

Rorgloin

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Note, this isn't really a Dev Diary or anything of the kind, I leave those to the ones higher up in the system. Nor is this indicative on any changes we are making to the game, but rather just my personal thoughts on the game, and just creating a discussion on a topic I am interested in, and get some feedback. I am sorry if it comes across as a bit of rambling.


Problems


The game often gives you information through the buttons at the top of the screen, informing you about the decisions you might take, the ambitions you might have, or the commanders you could assign. Personally, I've always found the title creation one the most interesting, as it informs the player that you have expanded your lands and can create new titles. You can become a King, an Emperor, or maybe you've simply moved from a Count to a Duke.

1. Several Duchies. But as it stands right now, I feel the button somewhat loses its meaning as you progress through the game. The first hinder is the simple fact a character can't have more than 2 Duchies, without getting opinion maluses. You are in charge of a bunch of small Duchy areas? Well, you are just not going to make those Duchy titles then. Sucks to be you. Now you are stuck with having the title creation as a permanent part of your life.

2. Titular Titles. Say you've dodged that bullet. You stuck to your original area, you built several baronies in the area you focused on or something of the kind. Then we hit the second hinder, titular titles. You've moved into Spain, and can now create Andalusia, Aragon, Castille and Portugal. That's a lot of titular titles leading nowhere, isn't it? So we create them, give them out, and start focusing on other things. A couple of years pass, and suddenly the game tell you that you can create Aragon, Castille and Portugal again, wait what? Oh right, the King of Andalusia, your power hungry vassal, just ate the other three. Because those are his DeJure areas, and god be damned if he will let the fake Kings of Aragon, Castille or Portugal be in charge of HIS areas.

3. Multiple Empires. And then we come to the final issue I have with the title creation button. Multiple empires. You have reformed the Roman Empire, you are at the top of the world. And now you can create the Empire of Italia! Or Francia! Or Germania! ... And what is the point exactly again? Some more negative opinion maluses? Nah, better just wait for the Kingdoms to DeJure drift into the Roman Empire.

While all of this is happening, you are stuck with having the title creation button on your screen. It is just there. It no longer inherently informs you that something have happened, or that you can do something new. It is just there. And you have to start clicking through them, to find what you want.


Potential Solutions

So how can we fix these issues?

1. Several Duchies. This has always stuck out as a weird thing for me. You can be the ruler of the known world, stretching from Britannia to India, but my god do your vassals hate you for being in charge of THREE duchies instead of TWO. How DARE you?! Preposterous!

A solution here is to tie the minimum Duchy limit either to your personal ruler tier (Duke, King, Emperor), or the realm holding size. It is hard to communicate to the player a realm size limit to it, without getting into numbers etc, so it is probably easier to directly connect it into ruler tier. You are a Duke? 2 Duchies without any opinion maluses. King? 3 Duchies, etc. It's a natural progression, and it makes sense as you progress through the game.

2. Titular Titles. Titular titles have always sort of annoyed me. They are meaningless titles you can use specifically to gain prestige or make Merchant Republics, and that's all they do. I am going to make a change here, coming out with the next expansion, where you can no longer create titular titles by simply holding their capital city. They will all be changed into decisions instead, and when you use the decision and form the Kingdom title, you have a certain amount of DeJure land drifted into the title. Good examples of this currently in the game are the Spanish kingdoms. You use the decision to form Aragon, and the Duchy of Aragon and Barcelona are drifted into the Kingdom title. So if the title are a titular one, you should have a decision to form it, if it has land attached to it, you simply hold enough land to create it. Hopefully that will reduce the Kingdom tier spam somewhat, in the late game.

3. Multiple Empires. Now this is the one I have a hard time coming up with a good solution to. I don't feel like there is any simple good solution to this problem, as things stand right now. One idea I was playing around with, is to incorporate empires into your original one. Either by outright saying "Hey, you are in charge of the whole DeJure area of both Italia and the Roman Empire, so we'll give you a decision to incorporate the Empire of Italia into your other DeJure lands."

Another solution could be to halfway incorporate two titles into one title, and say "Empire of Italia and Germania", share the DeJure lands, but have different succession laws so the two titles could fall apart if you had different heirs. This solution is code heavy though, and will probably lead to a lot of weird bugs, as well as horrendous bordergore and weird vassal splitting.

The final solution is simply removing the opinion malus on having several empire titles. I don't really have any data saying this is good or bad.

4. Other solutions. Another solution to this whole problem, another way of making the title creation more relevant again and less of a permanent fixture in the late game, is to let the player choose if a title is relevant for them or not. For decisions, we let the player decide if they find a decision important or not. We could simply do the same with titles, and put in a checkbox. If the player don't think the Empire of Germania is an interesting title, they click the box and they will never be reminded they can create that title again.

Conclusion
It could be this whole thing is just something I personally find frustrating when I play the game, but I thought I'd at least share my thoughts and see what other people are thinking. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on potential solutions if you find it frustrating to deal with as well, or if you have any thoughts on the changes to titular titles.

Regarding: Titular Titles and making them bound to decisions — please please PLEASE do not hard code this change, I beg you. It will be horribly painful for modders if we have relied on titular titles for any reason. If you make this change, PLEASE make it a game rule or toggleable by a define. In my mod, I’ve added a large number of titular titles and it will be painful to make decisions for all of them. Also, while this solution fixes the Create Title issue, it just dumps it on the poor decisions menu and crowds it up. So I’m not sure this change even fixes anything.
 

larkvi

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Another issue which I think ties into the number of duchies thing is that one often needs to hold on to titles one would otherwise choose to grant to sons under gavelkind because the game has very strict ideas about which son should be allowed which titles. This leads to annoying situations like the only titles I can actually give to my direct heir are my core lands--the ones I least want to give away as starter lands. I recently played as Jorvik, conquered most of England and Wales, became the King of Sweden (an annoying way to conquer the remaining lands of England--I would have liked a more restricted subjugation that only took over English territories of Sweden, so I was not stuck with an extra kingdom), and my heir inherited the county of Jorvik, but not the duchy it was in, which seems dumb. The only county I could legally give him (I had a lot of sons, so I get that this is partially on me) was Jorvik, which was also my capital. I would love it if the capital duchy always went with the top level title, kind of like the Isle de France, or Austria in the later HRE. I also love the upthread idea of having a title (perhaps titular, one level down from the main title) which is held by the heir, and only the heir.
 

Snow Crystal

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Regarding: Titular Titles and making them bound to decisions — please please PLEASE do not hard code this change, I beg you. It will be horribly painful for modders if we have relied on titular titles for any reason. If you make this change, PLEASE make it a game rule or toggleable by a define. In my mod, I’ve added a large number of titular titles and it will be painful to make decisions for all of them. Also, while this solution fixes the Create Title issue, it just dumps it on the poor decisions menu and crowds it up. So I’m not sure this change even fixes anything.

Like I mentioned earlier, this is in no way a "rework of titular titles" nor a "hardcoded change". It is me making changes to titular titles on a per-title basis. So fundamentally titular titles work the same way they always have. But I have changed a couple of them, to no longer be formable the normal way (by changing the allow part of them), and made decisions to form them. So this shouldn't in any way ruin anything for modders.
 

Rorgloin

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Like I mentioned earlier, this is in no way a "rework of titular titles" nor a "hardcoded change". It is me making changes to titular titles on a per-title basis. So fundamentally titular titles work the same way they always have. But I have changed a couple of them, to no longer be formable the normal way (by changing the allow part of them), and made decisions to form them. So this shouldn't in any way ruin anything for modders.
Thanks, that wasn’t clear to me.
 

vandevere

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Another thing you could look at is how the Papal AI decides whom to excommunicate. Popes have been crazy lately, just about excommunicating everyone in sight. But, oddly enough, they seem to have been leaving the Known Murderers, the Possessed Rulers, and the Kinslayers, alone.

I don't really mind Popes excommunicating Rulers, as long as the Rulers have done something to deserve it. Please get the Papal AI to prioritize the right targets!
 

Snow Crystal

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Another thing you could look at is how the Papal AI decides whom to excommunicate. Popes have been crazy lately, just about excommunicating everyone in sight. But, oddly enough, they seem to have been leaving the Known Murderers, the Possessed Rulers, and the Kinslayers, alone.

I don't really mind Popes excommunicating Rulers, as long as the Rulers have done something to deserve it. Please get the Papal AI to prioritize the right targets!

I've heard people say that, though I have yet to really notice it myself. I have seen a couple of Excommunications, but nothing insane in any way. I'm sure we'll take a look at it, and see if we can make some modifications to it.
 
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