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KaRappa

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Yea the AI needs a massive overhaul, I'm a complete noob at stellaris, like barely have a clue what I'm doing half the time and even I do not struggle even remotely with the AI factions. I thought turning up the difficulty and aggression might help but it really did nothing at all. The AI seems incompetent at just about everything, and passive on top of it. I can still lose to end game crisis stuff simply because I suck, but the other AI factions that start in the game are simply not even close to a threat, not even the ones that get starting bonuses.
 

badgr

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Alright, so this thread has been on the watch list since Jamor posted it and I'm all for open, unhindered discourse but let's tone it down a little.

We are always trying to maintain this openness and closeness with the community and try to be as transparent as possible, hence why Jamor posted this thread and let everyone know what is being planned.

There is a finite amount of time and resources available, but prior to release we had extensive QA testing, we played the game live on stream for the Dev Clash on hot code, we have weekly multiplayer sessions internally among the team, staff who are both involved in the project and outside of the project play in their spare time at work and as many issues are caught and fixed as possible. This will never compare to thousands upon thousands of people playing at launch but we're scouring forums, reddit, youtube, twitch, twitter, etc. and trying to address as much as possible. A day before vacations started where most people would think to start winding down, Jamor and his team released a patch to make sure that the community had the best possible version of the game to play over the holiday season. We've specifically allocated and budgeted a large chunk of time - because everything inevitably costs time or money - to fixes as Jamor said in his OP. If this is not enough to show the team's dedication and loyalty to making Stellaris the best game possible then I'm not sure that anything will convince you of this, unfortunately.

The team take great pride in what they do and try to make sure they're servicing those who play the game as much as possible. Trying to give people as much of what they want as can be created in the time that's available. They take time out of their day to interact directly with the community outside of working on the game, giving as much transparency and openness as they can to what's coming. They don't need to do this, but the culture within the team is that they enjoy having the open transparent way of communicating.

The level of lambasting displayed is diminishing that desire to maintain this level of openness. If it continues, the professional recommendation I will make to the team is to disengage from that open line of communication and simply stick to making announcements and patch note posts - relying on a filtered report to get a sense of what the community is saying/doing/reporting. This is not what anyone wants, I expect.

All I ask is you keep the discussion civil and free of toxicity, report issues to the appropriate sections, and if you want to rant and post vitriol on the forums, do it directly to my inbox here on the forum. What I won't stand for is for that to be directed at the dev team who are working tirelessly to give everyone the best game they can.
 

grandad1982

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Its funny how the major changes from 2.0 onwards were meant to mean better performance and better ai, yet right now they are pretty much the worse they have been for over a year.

I like the direction of travel of the concept of the game design (rip wormhole travel :(), but the rushed nature of 2.2 combined with pdx's lackluster ui (in more than just this game) is pretty sad. I had hoped that after hoi4 being released right before the summer break and being a mess they would have learnt that they shouldn't release products before they disappear for weeks at a time. Or in fact don't release buggy messes.

My summery of 2.2 and MC is D-, some good ideas poorly implemented and some serious technical faults. Must try harder.
 

L44Z

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I like to think that there are many many players (like myself) who just enjoy the game in its current form, in silent appreciation of the massive changes you and your team brought to us with this release.

Alright, so this thread has been on the watch list since Jamor posted it and I'm all for open, unhindered discourse but let's tone it down a little.

We are always trying to maintain this openness and closeness with the community and try to be as transparent as possible, hence why Jamor posted this thread and let everyone know what is being planned.

There is a finite amount of time and resources available, but prior to release we had extensive QA testing, we played the game live on stream for the Dev Clash on hot code, we have weekly multiplayer sessions internally among the team, staff who are both involved in the project and outside of the project play in their spare time at work and as many issues are caught and fixed as possible. This will never compare to thousands upon thousands of people playing at launch but we're scouring forums, reddit, youtube, twitch, twitter, etc. and trying to address as much as possible. A day before vacations started where most people would think to start winding down, Jamor and his team released a patch to make sure that the community had the best possible version of the game to play over the holiday season. We've specifically allocated and budgeted a large chunk of time - because everything inevitably costs time or money - to fixes as Jamor said in his OP. If this is not enough to show the team's dedication and loyalty to making Stellaris the best game possible then I'm not sure that anything will convince you of this, unfortunately.

The team take great pride in what they do and try to make sure they're servicing those who play the game as much as possible. Trying to give people as much of what they want as can be created in the time that's available. They take time out of their day to interact directly with the community outside of working on the game, giving as much transparency and openness as they can to what's coming. They don't need to do this, but the culture within the team is that they enjoy having the open transparent way of communicating.

The level of lambasting displayed is diminishing that desire to maintain this level of openness. If it continues, the professional recommendation I will make to the team is to disengage from that open line of communication and simply stick to making announcements and patch note posts - relying on a filtered report to get a sense of what the community is saying/doing/reporting. This is not what anyone wants, I expect.

All I ask is you keep the discussion civil and free of toxicity, report issues to the appropriate sections, and if you want to rant and post vitriol on the forums, do it directly to my inbox here on the forum. What I won't stand for is for that to be directed at the dev team who are working tirelessly to give everyone the best game they can.
 
O

OfficerBrennan

Guest
Thank you, however the dedication of the development team isn't at question (Some people will disagree I'm sure).

The nub of the matter is the launch went ahead despite the condition Stellaris was in. Somebody somewhere was OK to push this out the door, and that is most certainly not ok.
 

Kernog95

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@badgr, most of us are not attacking Jamor, or the devs. We are actually thankful of their work, post-release, and the quick release of the hotfixes.

They are pointing out that releasing a barely playable product, with litteral #TODO on base features, is a practice that many of your loyal customers felt was ambiguous.
Replying as if these feedback are personal attacks and showing zero acknowledgment of the message coming back in almost every post will only throw more fuel on the fire.

What most people request on this thread is that they would prefer a product of better quality, even if it takes a little more time to test.
 

Urza1234

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Alright, so this thread has been on the watch list since Jamor posted it and I'm all for open, unhindered discourse but let's tone it down a little.

We are always trying to maintain this openness and closeness with the community and try to be as transparent as possible, hence why Jamor posted this thread and let everyone know what is being planned.

There is a finite amount of time and resources available, but prior to release we had extensive QA testing, we played the game live on stream for the Dev Clash on hot code, we have weekly multiplayer sessions internally among the team, staff who are both involved in the project and outside of the project play in their spare time at work and as many issues are caught and fixed as possible. This will never compare to thousands upon thousands of people playing at launch but we're scouring forums, reddit, youtube, twitch, twitter, etc. and trying to address as much as possible. A day before vacations started where most people would think to start winding down, Jamor and his team released a patch to make sure that the community had the best possible version of the game to play over the holiday season. We've specifically allocated and budgeted a large chunk of time - because everything inevitably costs time or money - to fixes as Jamor said in his OP. If this is not enough to show the team's dedication and loyalty to making Stellaris the best game possible then I'm not sure that anything will convince you of this, unfortunately.

The team take great pride in what they do and try to make sure they're servicing those who play the game as much as possible. Trying to give people as much of what they want as can be created in the time that's available. They take time out of their day to interact directly with the community outside of working on the game, giving as much transparency and openness as they can to what's coming. They don't need to do this, but the culture within the team is that they enjoy having the open transparent way of communicating.

The level of lambasting displayed is diminishing that desire to maintain this level of openness. If it continues, the professional recommendation I will make to the team is to disengage from that open line of communication and simply stick to making announcements and patch note posts - relying on a filtered report to get a sense of what the community is saying/doing/reporting. This is not what anyone wants, I expect.

All I ask is you keep the discussion civil and free of toxicity, report issues to the appropriate sections, and if you want to rant and post vitriol on the forums, do it directly to my inbox here on the forum. What I won't stand for is for that to be directed at the dev team who are working tirelessly to give everyone the best game they can.

Agree x 1,000,000
You guys at the Stellaris sub-studio are great, with an awesome work ethic and communications policy. Its absolutely disgusting when people abuse that level of openness and transparency.

Guys, when Devs of any studio show that they actually care about their product and their community, do the same in return. If there are bugs, make bug reports, thats the most earnest and helpful thing you can do.
 
O

OfficerBrennan

Guest
Aye, I'm sure you guys don't want to read a forum full of complaints.

Help us help you by not throwing hastily put together content out the door, and we'll have a lot less criticism.
 

badgr

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Badgr, most of us are not attacking Jamor, or the devs. We are actually thankful of their work, post-release, and the quick release of the hotfixes (not patches)

They are pointing out that releasing an almost unplayable product, with litteral #TODO on base features, is an ambiguous business practice, to say the least. Replying as if these feedback are personal attacks and showing zero acknoledgment of the main message will only throw more fuel on the fire.

What most people request on this thread is that they would prefer a product of better quality, even if it takes a little more time to test.

The time and budget allocated to the fixes in the first part of this year is to address that very thing. Business practices are always a point of contention in the the community (both from PDX games and the wider gaming community) and getting into that debate is always going to be a difference of opinion. The team have identified this as an issue and have made sure time is allowed from all levels of the company to ensure that the quality of the game is improved through fixes and quality of life improvements to the game.

Assurances of this level cannot be made beyond that, but it's something that is actively being reviewed. The fact that we have allocated the resources necessary for that should - hopefully - show that this is on the minds of the company.
 

Jazzbanana

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Alright, so this thread has been on the watch list since Jamor posted it and I'm all for open, unhindered discourse but let's tone it down a little.

We are always trying to maintain this openness and closeness with the community and try to be as transparent as possible, hence why Jamor posted this thread and let everyone know what is being planned.

There is a finite amount of time and resources available, but prior to release we had extensive QA testing, we played the game live on stream for the Dev Clash on hot code, we have weekly multiplayer sessions internally among the team, staff who are both involved in the project and outside of the project play in their spare time at work and as many issues are caught and fixed as possible. This will never compare to thousands upon thousands of people playing at launch but we're scouring forums, reddit, youtube, twitch, twitter, etc. and trying to address as much as possible. A day before vacations started where most people would think to start winding down, Jamor and his team released a patch to make sure that the community had the best possible version of the game to play over the holiday season. We've specifically allocated and budgeted a large chunk of time - because everything inevitably costs time or money - to fixes as Jamor said in his OP. If this is not enough to show the team's dedication and loyalty to making Stellaris the best game possible then I'm not sure that anything will convince you of this, unfortunately.

The team take great pride in what they do and try to make sure they're servicing those who play the game as much as possible. Trying to give people as much of what they want as can be created in the time that's available. They take time out of their day to interact directly with the community outside of working on the game, giving as much transparency and openness as they can to what's coming. They don't need to do this, but the culture within the team is that they enjoy having the open transparent way of communicating.

The level of lambasting displayed is diminishing that desire to maintain this level of openness. If it continues, the professional recommendation I will make to the team is to disengage from that open line of communication and simply stick to making announcements and patch note posts - relying on a filtered report to get a sense of what the community is saying/doing/reporting. This is not what anyone wants, I expect.

All I ask is you keep the discussion civil and free of toxicity, report issues to the appropriate sections, and if you want to rant and post vitriol on the forums, do it directly to my inbox here on the forum. What I won't stand for is for that to be directed at the dev team who are working tirelessly to give everyone the best game they can.

However dissatisfied we may be with the current game state, the big majority of the forum users have no ill-intent towards paradox devs and want nothing but discussion. Moderate toxic complaints as per forum regulations, but please don't punish the rest of us because of an angry minority.
 

monkeypunch87

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That's fine, dear Community Manager. Stop the communication with the devs then. And I mean it honestly and without being toxic, it is just my subjective impression: It was not enough. It didn't show their dedication, love or passion. And I'm not thankful that you budgeted time for fixing. This time is just needed anyway.
 

Urza1234

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The time and budget allocated to the fixes in the first part of this year is to address that very thing. Business practices are always a point of contention in the the community (both from PDX games and the wider gaming community) and getting into that debate is always going to be a difference of opinion. The team have identified this as an issue and have made sure time is allowed from all levels of the company to ensure that the quality of the game is improved through fixes and quality of life improvements to the game.

Assurances of this level cannot be made beyond that, but it's something that is actively being reviewed. The fact that we have allocated the resources necessary for that should - hopefully - show that this is on the minds of the company.

My only constructive criticism in terms of business practices is to perhaps budget extra QA testing for your winter release. A large number of games studios, especially 4x ones, have issues with that. IE releasing games or DLC in December is great in terms of sales numbers, but the fact that it coincides with your winter break also leaves a subjectively huge gap in QA, because the winter break is the period of the year when the largest percentage of your customer base will have free time to play your game at once, while simultaneously the fewest support staff are available.
Perhaps for your winter release focus on a highly-tested product rather than a groundbreaking product, in future.

Please recognize that much of the volume of criticism is because of this phenomenon, and does not necessarily represent the view and opinions of many long-time supporters of Stellaris and Paradox.
 

XT-489

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Dear community manager,

I think this community wants a better release next time, postponed if necessary. I have no doubt you will clean up the shards now. The release process is the problem.
 

Alastor

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Threatening to cut off communications is just adding fuel to the fire. Lack of communication over the last few weeks being a major reason for much of the annoyance on display. Not to mention that it hurts your brand anyway. Open communication is a selling point, is it not? And besides to echo previous statements. You think I wanna be here complaining, instead of enjoying the game I bought? You don't want to be severely criticized? Don't mess up this bad.
 
Last edited:

arktky

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Despite how this patch was seemingly received I hope the team continues to be willing to make bold changes to the game. I love the direction the game has been going in since 2.0. It's just annoying while some core systems have been greatly reworked(and improved imo) other areas are severely lacking; namely AI.

Also being a long time pdx fan I know that things will get fixed, a lot of us are just frustrated since the game is simply unplayable past a certain point. (2350ish for me)
 

Fampat

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Iam still a bit dissapointed that a company cannot make a clear statemant positions itself behind its (else very good) product. Still it all sounds like "we do some/most stuff, and other will be buggy if time runs out", why cant it be such a good product like CK2 for example?

Why not positioning behind Stellaris and call out "We will get our product to a good level, thanks for all the reports and help", why all this "we do what we can".... YOU are the only one who CAN DO, so please, stand to your game! COMMIT to it and to make it a quality product like other products you have!
 

BigPony

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Also a cultural issue came into play as well with the 3 week vacation. That is more than 75% at least of working Americans get in an entire year. School Kids might have maybe gotten that, but not adults who work for living.

I think most of the people were not aware most Euro-Zone workers get 4-6 weeks of Vacation time per year so they got frustrated sitting here with a broken game that long.

We all know that now, so next time we will not be surprised around the holidays or summer time.
 

Kypamop

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@badgr I suggest to release beta expansion next time. And presales. So the part of community (including myself) that is ok with beta state and playing with mods like Glavius AI would still have access to the expansion, Paradox will have the money from Cristmas sales, and those who do not to want to play the game in beta would just wait for January release.
 

monkeypunch87

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Also a cultural issue came into play as well with the 3 week vacation. That is more than 75% at least of working Americans get in an entire year. School Kids might have maybe gotten that, but not adults who work for living.

I think most of the people were not aware most Euro-Zone workers get 4-6 weeks of Vacation time per year so they got frustrated sitting here with a broken game that long.

We all know that now, so next time we will not be surprised around the holidays or summer time.

It would still be helpful if someone like the Community Manager could post something like "Hey guys, we will be back around January 7th" beforehand, so we don't sit here and wait for any kind of communication. I'm also European, but still had to work one week earlier than Paradox.
 
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