[Dev Team] Niven update (2.1.0) Released [checksum 01a9]

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I just played this version for the first time, went into a war where i out gunned the defending force by 5 times, broke thier moral by 10 times them, was a hundred troops stronger then them, the planet beat this army hands down plus the extra 500 points of men i fed into it, how is anyone supposed to play a game where the stats are bogus, somehow in this war that i controlled most of his territory decimated his fleets totally and everytime get a fleet of 6000 from nowhere from. i dont get this ability. i cannot generate the needed credit from systems to do that espeically if ihave taken out the strongest bases how can they. this was supposed to be a great strategy game but if from everything i can see that i am going to hands down win a battle and desperately lose it how is this so??? I really really desire an answer to this after spending so much money for a game that does not remotely live up to this.
Defensive armies can get some massive boosts, depending what's on planet. There's even a tech that just directly boosts them as well.
Just because you have more troops (especially if there's a low combat width) doesn't mean an automatic win. If the defenders are "very strong" and have a good general for example, they can be a lot stronger than just raw numbers of troops would suggest.

Defeated ships aren't always destroyed. Sometimes they do an emergency withdrawal and come back once repaired. Alternatively, they may have had a fleet some distance away that took time to arrive. It's also possible that they're an ally joining in late, or that it's a fleet from the marauders, who are pretty much universally hostile.
I'm hoping you mean the fleet had a strength of 6000, not that it had 6000 ships in it. That would be distinctly unlikely.

Do you have a save you can upload from during the war? Preferably during the invasion.
If we can look at that, we might be able to give you a better suggestion as to what is happening.
 
It's also possible that they're an ally joining in late, or that it's a fleet from the marauders, who are pretty much universally hostile.
A "6k fleet" suddenly appearing sounds like it could be a Marauder fleet that the empire purchased (although I believe the smallest is 9k). My experience has been that empires at war will almost always purchase a Marauder mercenary fleet to buff their fleet strength- it can even be a problem for occupation, because it appears directly over your capital if you buy one, so if you've already occupied the core territories of an empire that fleet can "randomly" show up and start bombarding occupied planets.
 
The 6k fleet is certainly a Marauder fleet, it happened to me last game. I was bombarding the only planet of a small empire that crossed my way, sent a 5k fleet there, thought that I have everything under control since I took their only shipyard...and bam, marauders came to the rescue.

To be honest, I was quite impressed by this behaviour. It is a bit silly that the fleet just *spawns* in the homeworld system instead of flying all the way, but it really felt like a smart move to make, I didn't expect it but I really like the fact that the AI know how to use them to their advantage.
 
A "6k fleet" suddenly appearing sounds like it could be a Marauder fleet that the empire purchased (although I believe the smallest is 9k). My experience has been that empires at war will almost always purchase a Marauder mercenary fleet to buff their fleet strength- it can even be a problem for occupation, because it appears directly over your capital if you buy one, so if you've already occupied the core territories of an empire that fleet can "randomly" show up and start bombarding occupied planets.
That'd make sense.

I've not had anyone buy a fleet in my games so far (at least not that I've noticed - it's possible it turned up and I crushed it without noticing it was there, because I wasn't looking at it), but it does seem plausible.
 
Hi,
I would like to know if something is planned for the fleet icons where ur watching them on the big map.
Because when i am in a war, in lategame its very painfull to find the true bigs fleets, or the little fleet which just got created and are moving system from system to regroupe themselves : sometimes my ennemy got 2 or 3 big fleets, and like 40 ships alone. A filter of fleet siez would be nice !
And is there any way to see on the map when 2 other empires are fighting each others in a system ? Or to change colors of the fleets depending to wich empire they belong to.
Thank you ! (and sorry for my bad english).
 
I just played this version for the first time, went into a war where i out gunned the defending force by 5 times, broke thier moral by 10 times them, was a hundred troops stronger then them, the planet beat this army hands down plus the extra 500 points of men i fed into it, how is anyone supposed to play a game where the stats are bogus, somehow in this war that i controlled most of his territory decimated his fleets totally and everytime get a fleet of 6000 from nowhere from. i dont get this ability. i cannot generate the needed credit from systems to do that espeically if ihave taken out the strongest bases how can they. this was supposed to be a great strategy game but if from everything i can see that i am going to hands down win a battle and desperately lose it how is this so??? I really really desire an answer to this after spending so much money for a game that does not remotely live up to this.


Fleet powers/power ratings are more like GUIDE LINES, they give you a general idea of your forces strength, However they did mention a bug on math to figure this in the most recent 2.1.X patches, and the are working to fix it so it doesn't miscalculate your total.

AS FOR ARMIES, simple tactic to do is this 3 times the force power # is barely the win. So just have 3 to 1 odds and your set on the power rating.
*****Hint the defensive armies can get lots of damage bonus and such, so they are stronger then one assault army in a even match-up.****

Also its been noticeable in history that some Generals and masters of war state that to take a Castle (fortified position) its best to have 10 to 1 odds with the assaulting force as the 10.
If this wasn't true, then there would be no point in building such defenses. Needing the larger force to take a defensive position is how it worked before, that would seem to be true here.

Over all, even before the 2.0 patch, Fallen empires are a good example of the force power being a guideline.
I could have 30% more fleet power then a fallen empire in my total fleets combined in a fight and still lose due to the tech Difference and such.
But if had near the same lv tech and that 20% difference I would usually win with heavy loses anyways.

Heck Hull regen Augment, and living metal with a Admiral with Hull repair can make a fleet more deadly that isnt calculated by the fleet power correctly.
This trick has made an AI or two die to a Smaller fleet power but equal tech. (granted only a smaller fleet power by about 10% to 15%)
 
Just played a game for 20 hours with a friend. I was a hive, and we were both next to fanatic purifiers. The AI ended up having overwhelming strength over both of us, but refused to EVER declare war on either of us, despite also being rivaled by both.

So basically, the AI never, ever declares war? I have all the expansions except the last. I was about to buy this one, but this AI passivity is a deal breaker. Can anyone else confirm this bug/shortcoming? For me, having such a passive and unrealistic AI is reason enough to abandon the game. Very disappointing, as the other patch updates looked good.
 
Just played a game for 20 hours with a friend. I was a hive, and we were both next to fanatic purifiers. The AI ended up having overwhelming strength over both of us, but refused to EVER declare war on either of us, despite also being rivaled by both.

So basically, the AI never, ever declares war? I have all the expansions except the last. I was about to buy this one, but this AI passivity is a deal breaker. Can anyone else confirm this bug/shortcoming? For me, having such a passive and unrealistic AI is reason enough to abandon the game. Very disappointing, as the other patch updates looked good.

You need to set agressivness to high.
 
You need to set agressivness to high.

Aggressiveness WAS on high, and the AI difficulty was on Admiral. Finally, out of boredom, I declared war on the AI because he was blocking my route to my opponent, at which point the AI came and crushed me. It's so frustrating, because it ruined this game, which was really fun in every other respect - the AI built up a great empire, fleet, etc.

Is this an issue just from the latest update?
 
Aggressiveness WAS on high, and the AI difficulty was on Admiral. Finally, out of boredom, I declared war on the AI because he was blocking my route to my opponent, at which point the AI came and crushed me. It's so frustrating, because it ruined this game, which was really fun in every other respect - the AI built up a great empire, fleet, etc.

Is this an issue just from the latest update?

More like an issue since 2.0. Devs forgot, that this game is big, and playing with AI is kinda often, and forgot to adjust AI to the new stuff. For now AI just BAD. There are modders who try to mod it, and make it great, but their options are limited.
 
Aggressiveness WAS on high, and the AI difficulty was on Admiral. Finally, out of boredom, I declared war on the AI because he was blocking my route to my opponent, at which point the AI came and crushed me. It's so frustrating, because it ruined this game, which was really fun in every other respect - the AI built up a great empire, fleet, etc.

Is this an issue just from the latest update?

Maybe the AI was at war/busy with another empire and considered you beneath it's notice for now? But I agree that setting aggressiveness on high should let you have almost constant warfare in a big enough galaxy.
 
Maybe the AI was at war/busy with another empire and considered you beneath it's notice for now? But I agree that setting aggressiveness on high should let you have almost constant warfare in a big enough galaxy.

No, the AI (fanatic purifiers) refused to go to war vs anyone, including neighboring humans (who were competing for resources) and AI. This is a game-ruining bug - very disappointing, when the other changes have been positive.
 
Yeah i noticed, that AI is damn relucant to wage war even on high aggressivness with genociders. This part could be adjusted accordingly.

My idea depending on personality as default:

Pacifist: can be provoked into war, but will not start it just cause. If provoked, then uses the normal rules.

Fanatic Pacifist: obvious.

Normal: start war, if no more place to expand, and relations are bad, and relative navy is superior at least.

Genocider: start war if got superior navy, or equivalent navy with no place to grow

militarist conqueror: same as genocider, if got enough influence to claim stuff, or start war to vassalize

militarist warrior: tries to start war on equivalent strength. If strength is superior, then start insulting, and provoking, then demand tributary. If tributary refused, then start war for it.