[Dev Team] 3.0.3 Beta Patch Released (checksum 927c)

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grommile

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Kommunist Fried Chicken

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not in paradox games it isn't.

like, the biggest flaw in EU3's espionage system was the hideously powerful actions that the AI didn't know how to use.
But in Stellaris, you can hardly see AI build Megastructures, Judgements, Colossuses or select the Synthetic Evolution Evolutionary Mastery and Arcology Project perk. They are not banned for AI in code, but actually, AI cannot use these items to against players, crisis or themselves. There's no difference between banning these things and the situation nowadays.
 
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grommile

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But in Stellaris, you can hardly see AI build Megastructures, Judgements, Colossuses or select the Synthetic Evolution Evolutionary Mastery and Arcology Project perk.
and until it does, we should not add yet more powerful options the AI doesn't know how to use.
 
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and until it does, we should not add yet more powerful options the AI doesn't know how to use.
The reason that devs are unwilling to add powerful operations is they don't want players feel they are forced to interact with the new system(in Dev #206). And if AI can use some powerful operations, it is easily to force players pay more attention on the spy system. Sometimes, the effects may be annoying for players. The best part of Espionage for now is the intel collection, which is contained in the free update.
I don't think it is a good choice to make the hole system useless too, so the best option is the play-only operations.
 
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NixPanicus

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The resettlement change makes Void Dwellers really rough. With very limited building slots and limited pop growth space, I get unemployed pops with no ability to add new jobs and very severe growth penalties only 15 years into the game. I have other habitats ready with jobs and space, but nobody wants to move. Resettling costs influence, which I need to make more habitats and claim systems because I'm only 15 years in and there's still plenty of space. I haven't even been offered hyperdrive tech to build a transit hub, and even if I had the tech the hub would compete with hydroponics.

I know the Corvee civic exists to fix the influence problem, but it shouldn't feel necessary to have a specific set of civics to play an origin. If these changes stick, maybe Void Dwellers could be buffed to have higher resettlement chance or a discount on resettlement costs?

Also, is it intended that Habitat Control buildings only benefit from the +10% production boost tech even at tier 2? The +20% and +30% techs do nothing, which hurts considering habitats really need the efficiency
 
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mial42

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Noticed a major issue with influence-costing-resettlement. It makes conquering from gestalts a huge issue without Land Appropriation, since all the newly conquered pops can get purged before a single one of yours grows. Maybe land appropriation should happen automatically when conquering from a gestalt.
 

sillyrobot

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Noticed a major issue with influence-costing-resettlement. It makes conquering from gestalts a huge issue without Land Appropriation, since all the newly conquered pops can get purged before a single one of yours grows. Maybe land appropriation should happen automatically when conquering from a gestalt.

Can't you resettle a robot? The robot can't take a specialist/ruler job, but it should guarantee you don't lose the colony and they only cost energy. (assuming you don't have synth yet, obviously).
 

Archael90

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I have a suggestion - remove all kinetics weapons. Why do we need them anyway? Energy weapons have null void beam that destroy shields, penetrating weapons that makes any defence irrelevant, and now T weapons that are extremally strong, and what kinetics have? Erm... lot of other engi tech so you cant improve them as much as energy in end-game? yeah... great...

1. That was a sarcasm.
2. The fact is that energy weapons have everything, and kinetcs have only hard time of upgrading them via repetables, and that penetrating weapon is both - op, and energy.

Edit: its funny, because You are disagreing with facts xD You may not like it, but its a fact xD
If devs dont want to balance ship armaments, then lets remove kinetic/energy, and leave only casual weapons so that more important ones (energy and kinetic) will get bonuses from physics techs, and missile and strikecraft will be "addons" that will get bonusses from engineering. Then people will use different kind of weapons (tho i still believe everyone will always use arcs and cloud lightnings) ;/
 

mial42

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Can't you resettle a robot? The robot can't take a specialist/ruler job, but it should guarantee you don't lose the colony and they only cost energy. (assuming you don't have synth yet, obviously).
Yes, but not all empires have robot servants (I didn't in the game I noticed that since I'd already gotten synth ascension). For empires without them, it's a major issue.

And of course, the AI can't manually resettle, so it really needs to have land appropriation whenever it conquers form a gestalt (unless it already has the policy of course, no need to double dip).
 

Hemothep

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Noticed a major issue with influence-costing-resettlement. It makes conquering from gestalts a huge issue without Land Appropriation, since all the newly conquered pops can get purged before a single one of yours grows. Maybe land appropriation should happen automatically when conquering from a gestalt.
Resettling a slave or robot will save the colony. However: Letting it die might be better since you can throw a colony ship at it, thereby creating two pops from nothing.
 
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sillyrobot

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Yes, but not all empires have robot servants (I didn't in the game I noticed that since I'd already gotten synth ascension). For empires without them, it's a major issue.

And of course, the AI can't manually resettle, so it really needs to have land appropriation whenever it conquers form a gestalt (unless it already has the policy of course, no need to double dip).

I haven't paid attention to purging speed since before Necroids. Would a typical captured colony offer enough time before emptying to expect an unemployed worker to auto-migrate? Probably not or you wouldn't raise the issue.
 

mial42

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Resettling a slave or robot will save the colony. However: Letting it die might be better since you can throw a colony ship at it, thereby creating two pops from nothing.
Not all empire types have slaves or robot servants. I suppose I could do colony ship abuse, but I have precisely 0 desire to do that, and the AI often can't recolonize destroyed colonies at all.
I haven't paid attention to purging speed since before Necroids. Would a typical captured colony offer enough time before emptying to expect an unemployed worker would auto-migrate? Probably not or you wouldn't raise the issue.
Sometimes yes. But not consistently, unless I go out of my way to unemploy large numbers of pops.
 

maxirage

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After playing a few more games, I agree with the person who said nerfing auto resettlement speed was a bad idea. Auto resettlement is very opaque and can only be played "by feeling", but this feeling changes with empire type. Speed doesn't make any practical difference, since as long as pops resettle faster than they grow, it doesn't really matter (and they always do) but it feels horrible to sacrifice civics/buildings just to make it work consistently. In the end this is a quality of life feature, and it shouldn't be tied to progression like this. It should be something available equally and universally from the start (robots and slaves too). I shouldn't be discouraged from playing certain empires because they require more clicks than others for no good reason.
 
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DC E1G

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After playing a few more games, I agree with the person who said nerfing auto resettlement speed was a bad idea. Auto resettlement is very opaque and can only be played "by feeling", but this feeling changes with empire type. Speed doesn't make any practical difference, since as long as pops resettle faster than they grow, it doesn't really matter (and they always do) but it feels horrible to sacrifice civics/buildings just to make it work consistently. In the end this is a quality of life feature, and it shouldn't be tied to progression like this. It should be something available equally and universally from the start (robots and slaves too). I shouldn't be discouraged from playing certain empires because they require more clicks than others for no good reason.

I think the reason why made it slower is because auto-resettlement effectively eliminates unemployment and crime its 3.0.2 form because of how consistent it is.

It's also a very slight nerf to breeder worlds, although it's not really going to stop anyone.

Thematically, pops should take some time to relocate on their own, but I agree that it can be a mild annoyance for players. That said, it should still be faster than pop growth in most cases right?
 
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maxirage

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It also made effects that increase auto-resettlement speed worthless, especially the starport building.

That's backwards game design, a solution in search of a problem. My point was that auto resettlement should always be the same and not tied to buildings/government in the first place. It's the equivalent of having buildings that increase your max gamespeed.
 
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Toybasher

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I think the reason why made it slower is because auto-resettlement effectively eliminates unemployment and crime its 3.0.2 form because of how consistent it is.

It's also a very slight nerf to breeder worlds, although it's not really going to stop anyone.

Thematically, pops should take some time to relocate on their own, but I agree that it can be a mild annoyance for players. That said, it should still be faster than pop growth in most cases right?
I also have had many cases where I saw I had unemployment, went to build some buildings/districts to give them jobs, and the pop ends up auto-resettling during the building process, which meant the time and resources spent for the building/district was all for nothing. Heartbreaking during late-game when pops take much longer to grow since you have to wait a long time for another pop to grow to fill in the new jobs.
 

Jamaican Castle

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That's backwards game design, a solution in search of a problem. My point was that auto resettlement should always be the same and not tied to buildings/government in the first place. It's the equivalent of having buildings that increase your max gamespeed.
In what way is it like increasing game speed? The intended design is that there are some situations where your pop resettlement is slow (and you may have several unemployed pops waiting for move) and some where it's fast (and there will be no pops waiting to move). The reality was that instead of slow and fast, you had fast and ultra-fast, with no perceptible difference between them.

The devs don't want the auto-resettle mechanic to mean that there is no such thing as unemployment, and if it had been introduced on its own that probably would've been fine, but the fact that it was pushed alongside the pop numbers changes means that all the numbers were off.
 
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ToneyT

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I just noticed that in 3.0.3 Synth Ascended species get migration controls turned on by default the second they ascend, effectively making them unable to resettle on their own.

I tried editing it out of the save file, but it gets turned on again after a couple months.

Auto-resettlement has been a QoL godsend, please revert it back to the state of 3.0.2 where they could auto-migrate.
If you want to nerf Synth Ascension or Machine Empires, or the planet/habitat pop farm meta, this is most certainly not the way.
 
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