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[metalosse]

I've got some mysterious Trade Value flowing through my empire. Normally, I'd be happy to have free TV, but I'm an ME, so I have no idea what is happening. The system named Phonok in the picture below is especially confounding, since the trade route inexplicably stops right there. It can't be coming from the guy to my right, since they do not control any systems past our borders. Everything north of the system Mavall (just below CORE EXTENSION 015), following the hyperlane network, once belonged to the FP empire to my north, so I thought the trade route was a remnant of their stuff, but there was never a starbase in Phonok. I have tried clearing out the piracy, but it just comes back.

View attachment 450285

Strangely enough, I am actually collecting 5.38 TV, which isn't even the amount the trade route is worth. It can't be because piracy is reducing it, but I just finished clearing all of it. I have check all of my planets and none of them are producing TV, which MEs can't produce anyway.

View attachment 450286

If it ended there I could accept it as a remnant trade route of the FP I attacked, but it gets weirder. I now have a trade route running across my core territory, which was never once controlled by an organic empire.

View attachment 450295

I'm going to build a starbase in each of these systems in an attempt to forcibly update the piracy. Hopefully that will work.

EDIT: The starbases only work as long as they exist. Even waiting a month so everything updates and then disbanding the starbased just makes the piracy come back. This has annoyingly already spawned a nothing little pirate fleet that I had to swat.

There must be a other empires trade route that goes through your systems.

It probably comes from the wormhole in the Zorf system. Try to close your borders to the empire that is beyond that wormhole.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

There must be a other empires trade route that goes through your systems.

It probably comes from the wormhole in the Zorf system. Try to close your borders to the empire that is beyond that wormhole.

You're a genius! That was exactly what was happening. I switched control over to them and they have a trade route on a long, winding journey all over the galaxy. I've been trying to figure out where this mysterious trade route was coming from for over an hour. If I could stick my face through my monitor and kiss you I would.

Now, if only I could figure out where and how I'm getting the now 5.39 TV from.

This is quite the journey. Do you think the freighters get paid overtime? I couldn't help but notice the trade route goes right through the horde as well. Does that mean they get hazard pay as well?

 

[01d55]

You might have captured a starbase with an offworld trading company.

I've noticed that Machine Empires do have their own trade collection facility. It's not buildable but capturing an organic starbase with trade hubs will convert them to the ME version. If there's also an unbuildable ME trading company, it's possible to collect trade within your own empire.

And the Khan is no pirate, so Horde space is likely the safest leg of that journey.

 

[Madzai]

Most of the early game bottleneck for me has come from the higher alloy cost of outposts and colony ships. The buff to alloy production helps there, but the mineral conversion rate is the same (2 mins:1 alloy.)

Seems like it depend on luck, optimization and preferences? In my game with Luxury DA(so i needed even more minerals), i had no problems at all with Alloys, even with few minaral deposits nearby. And at the same time i was always starved for influence.

On unrelated to ME bufs note, Jobs priorities are still messed up? I have DA with Machine(+ amenities production) and Cyborgs(+ science and + energy) and while Cyborgs were always prioritized for Energy jobs, for some reason Machines and Cyborgs are always mixed for Maintenance and Calculator jobs (not to mention Coordinators, but for for it, the bonus is small anyway).

 

[Kayden_II]

I am honestly at a loss why you have an issue understanding that.

01. You should be very careful to imply, that he's somewhat stupid ...
02. For a better understanding, there's even a dedicated thread about this topic: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...s-but-their-new-toys-are-prec-houses.1150836/
03. I'm pretty sure, that he had not only understood and pointed out the actual problem, (that, (in contrast to other buildings), the precinct-houses (and (I guess) the organic sanctuaries as well) don't have a condition in regards to unemployed POPs); but solved it as well ...
04. The actual thing is, that he uses an other condition with free POP-jobs (instead of the one with unemployed POPs) since it's possible, that his approach is better. Example: 0 / Having no unemployed POPs on a colony is a tricky thing since it doesn't necessarily mean, that this colony has full employment (aka (amount of POP-jobs) - (amount of POPs) = 0) since it could also mean, that this colony needs employees (aka (amount of POP-jobs) - (amount of POPs) > 0). On the other hand, his condition with free POP-jobs differentiates this.
05. What he's actually asking for (from Darkrenown, not from you) is something to deal with bio-trophies since as "POP-jobs", they're somewhat problematic in regards to his approach with free POP-jobs.

 

[The Founder]

I had some form of brain failure I guess. Gossek shouldn't have a route since it is within Home Star's collection radius and doesn't collect trade from anywhere else. Gossek SHOULD be collected by Home Star. Home Star has 2 trade modules, Gossek has 0; it is a ship yard. There is no reason Gossek should have a route of its own other than the game engine said "Look a star base with a trade value! Draw a route!"

Trade Value is always collected by the nearest starbases. And being literally in the System, the Gossek based is a lot closer to any Trade value in the System then the Capitol System Starbase.

I did make a halfway decent Writeup of the rules for the Wiki.

Not without a bug. MEs get energy rather than trade value from Dimensional Researcers.

Unless they conquer the enemy Planet with the modifier. Or turned into a ME, using the "AI Rebellion" Event.
Those are fringe cases where the wierdness can happen.

01. You should be very careful to imply, that he's somewhat stupid ...

Wich is exactly why I did not do that.

I have been saying I need to count jobs not pops. I can count pops because count_owned_pops is a good function and it can take limit argument.

I still have no idea wich specific problem you try to solve by counting free Jobs, rather then just waiting for unemplyoed pops (and then filter on them)?

The only mistakes with Precinct houses and Organic Sanctuaries was that they lacked the check (with the smae x0 Multiplier) that every other building had, so they could be spammed when they should not have been.

 

[AlanC9]

Trade Value is always collected by the nearest starbases. And being literally in the System, the Gossek based is a lot closer to any Trade value in the System then the Capitol System Starbase..

Which isn't a great rule, is it? Having a starbase within the capital radius just generates piracy that you wouldn't have if you dismantled that base.

Concerning free jobs, I thought the problem was Bio-Trophies counting as unemployed.

 

[The Founder]

Concerning free jobs, I thought the problem was Bio-Trophies counting as unemployed.

Then as I said 3 pages ago, just filter out the Biotrophies. As the Organic Scantuary already does:

ai_weight = {
    weight = 1
    modifier = {
        factor = 3
        free_housing < 0
    }
   
    modifier = {
        factor = 10
        any_pop = {
            has_living_standard = { type = living_standard_organic_trophy }
            is_unemployed = yes
        }
    }

    modifier =
    {
        factor = 3
        free_amenities < 2
    }
}

The only mistake was that the factor is not x0 if there are no unemployed Biotrophies, so it has a weight of 1 and can be build.
This is the only mistake. Change hte factors so that that if "no unemployed biotrophy" = x0

Every single building has a check like this (Hydroponics Farm):

# No one to work it
modifier = {
    factor = 0
    count_owned_pops = {
        limit = {
            OR = {
                is_unemployed = yes
                has_job = servant
            }
        }
        count < 2
    }
}

or this (T1 foundry):

modifier = {
    factor = 0
    count_owned_pops = {
        limit = {
            OR = {
                is_unemployed = yes
                has_job = servant
            }
        }
        count < 1
    }
}

or this (Autochtn Monument):

ai_weight = {
    factor = 2
    # No one to work it
    modifier = {
        factor = 0
        count_owned_pops = {
            limit = {
                OR = {
                    is_unemployed = yes
                    has_job = servant
                }
            }
            count < 2
        }
    }
}

 

[Iosue Yu]

Trade Value is always collected by the nearest starbases. And being literally in the System, the Gossek based is a lot closer to any Trade value in the System then the Capitol System Starbase.

I did make a halfway decent Writeup of the rules for the Wiki.


Unless they conquer the enemy Planet with the modifier. Or turned into a ME, using the "AI Rebellion" Event.
Those are fringe cases where the wierdness can happen.


Wich is exactly why I did not do that.


I still have no idea wich specific problem you try to solve by counting free Jobs, rather then just waiting for unemplyoed pops (and then filter on them)?

The only mistakes with Precinct houses and Organic Sanctuaries was that they lacked the check (with the smae x0 Multiplier) that every other building had, so they could be spammed when they should not have been.

Technically, you are right. But in reality, all the buildings with weight 1 will not get built because unemployment also triggers building a new District. The CPU will easily end up with building up more Districts than they actually need but leaving the building slots open. So I would rather we prioritise building the buildings first by enabling it at free_jobs <= 2 instead of at the point of unemployment.

Thus, they will still try to use the building slots first, and then the Districts, while not trying to overdevelop their planets with too many job openings.

 

[Iosue Yu]

Then as I said 3 pages ago, just filter out the Biotrophies. As the Organic Scantuary already does:

ai_weight = {
    weight = 1
    modifier = {
        factor = 3
        free_housing < 0
    }
  
    modifier = {
        factor = 10
        any_pop = {
            has_living_standard = { type = living_standard_organic_trophy }
            is_unemployed = yes
        }
    }

    modifier =
    {
        factor = 3
        free_amenities < 2
    }
}

The only mistake was that the factor is not x0 if there are no unemployed Biotrophies, so it has a weight of 1 and can be build.
This is the only mistake. Change hte factors so that that if "no unemployed biotrophy" = x0

Every single building has a check like this (Hydroponics Farm):

# No one to work it
modifier = {
    factor = 0
    count_owned_pops = {
        limit = {
            OR = {
                is_unemployed = yes
                has_job = servant
            }
        }
        count < 2
    }
}

or this (T1 foundry):

modifier = {
    factor = 0
    count_owned_pops = {
        limit = {
            OR = {
                is_unemployed = yes
                has_job = servant
            }
        }
        count < 1
    }
}

or this (Autochtn Monument):

ai_weight = {
    factor = 2
    # No one to work it
    modifier = {
        factor = 0
        count_owned_pops = {
            limit = {
                OR = {
                    is_unemployed = yes
                    has_job = servant
                }
            }
            count < 2
        }
    }
}

So I have added a new wall to stop them from building a Sanctuary when they don't have unemployed Bio-Trophies. But how it would improve the script if we can allow them at the moment there is only 1 opening left for Bio-Trophies so that they don't need to miss out the opportunity and have to wait for the next 5 Pops, ending up with 2 Unemployed ones and 40% Stability.

 

[The Founder]

Technically, you are right. But in reality, all the buildings with weight 1 will not get built because unemployment also triggers building a new District

Not really, unless it really needs it.

Foundry T1:

ai_weight = {
    weight = 1
    modifier =
    {
        factor = 6
        owner = {
            has_monthly_income = {
                resource = alloys
                value < 15
            }
        }
    }
    modifier = {
        factor = 0
        OR = {
            AND = {
                is_capital  = no
                OR = {
                    num_buildings = { type = building_foundry_1 value >= 2 }
                    num_buildings = { type = building_foundry_2 value >= 1 }
                    num_buildings = { type = building_foundry_3 value >= 1 }
                }
            }
            AND = {
                is_capital  = yes
                OR = {
                    num_buildings = { type = building_foundry_1 value >= 3 }
                    num_buildings = { type = building_foundry_2 value >= 1 }
                    num_buildings = { type = building_foundry_3 value >= 1 }
                }
            }
        }
    }
    modifier = {
        factor = 0
        count_owned_pops = {
            limit = {
                OR = {
                    is_unemployed = yes
                    has_job = servant
                }
            }
            count < 1
        }
    }
}

Base weight is 1
x6 if the AI got less then 15 Alloy income
x0 if no unemployed pops

Mining district:

ai_weight = {
    weight = 1
    modifier =
    {
        factor = 3
        owner = {
            has_monthly_income = {
                resource = minerals
                value < 0
            }
        }
    }

    modifier = {
        factor = 2
        free_housing < 0
    }

    modifier = {
        factor = 3
        any_owned_pop = {
            OR = {
                is_unemployed = yes
                has_job = servant
            }
        }
    }

    # No one to work it anyway
    modifier = {
        factor = 0
        free_housing > 0
        NOT = {
            any_owned_pop = {
                OR = {
                    is_unemployed = yes
                    has_job = servant
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

Base weight 1
x3 if under 0 Mineral income
x2 if out of housing (however consider dedicate housing stuff having way higher weights here)
x3 if any unemplyoed
x0 if no unemplyoed and not negative housing.

The x3 if any unemplyoed is somewhat wierd. But I asume that is because it is also a housing provider. If you consider it for housing, you want to prefer it if you also have unemployed pops. I would need to look at the other housing providers to see the full effect.

If you got unemployment:
Foundry is 1 base
Mining District is 3

If you got unemployment and alloy issues:
Foundry is 6
Mining district is 3.

If you got unemplyoment and mineral issues:
Foundry is 1
Mining district is 9

But how it would improve the script if we can allow them at the moment there is only 1 opening left for Bio-Trophies so that they don't need to miss out the opportunity and have to wait for the next 5 Pops, ending up with 2 Unemployed ones and 40% Stability.

You think that if you do not build the sanctuaries preemtively, you run out of slots to build them. But Biotrophies do count for unlocking slots. And as 1 sanctuary supports 10 Biotrophies (20 with the Upgrade), that means you unlock 2-4 slots for every fully occupied Sanctuary.

Sanctuaries are also very effective Job Providers. 1 Building supports 10 Tropies and some Maintenance drones.

Rogue Servitors thus always way ahead of unlocking building slots. The only time they might starve for it, is if they have already unlocke all buildings slots. But at the point, it is a mater of repalcing building (or stopping growth) anyway.

 

[HighKings_Ruin]

So I have a suggestion, the idea for this came around when I tried re-creating the Mass Effect Relay network with Gateways or Wormholes (with a Relay replacer mod). The idea was that with a slower FTL mod empires had to use the gateways/wormholes to travel, however the idea didn't work out as this happens when the spawn slider is set to 5x or anything of a high value:

Wormholes and Gateways seem to have this odd habit odd spawning in these groups close together rather than spread out across the galaxy. This leads to a bit of a "packed" issue. Even without the Mass Effect theme idea this seems a bit odd.

Could the spawning behaviour of them be changed to have them more spread out?

 

[Technoincubus]

The game is so slow. God damn its so slow when in late game

 

[The Founder]

Could the spawning behaviour of them be changed to have them more spread out?

Just change the spawning rules of their Systems:

# Abandoned Gateways
abandoned_gateways_01 = {
    class = "rl_standard_stars"

    flags = { abandoned_gateway }

    usage = misc_system_init
    usage_odds = {
        base = 100
        modifier = {
            factor = 0                                        # we don't want gateways too close to each other
            closest_system = {
                has_megastructure = gateway_ruined
                distance = {
                    source = prev
                    max_distance <= 200
                }
            }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0                                        # we don't want gateways too close to each other
            any_neighbor_system = {
                has_megastructure = gateway_ruined
            }
        }
    }

    max_instances = 15
    scaled_spawn_chance = 5
    scaled_spawn_settings = num_gateways                    # scales both the spawn_chance and the max_instances based on the settings value

    planet = {
        count = 1
        class = star
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = 1
        size = { min = 20 max = 30 }
        has_ring = no
    }
    
    change_orbit = 45
    
    planet = {
        count = { min = 2 max = 10 }
        orbit_distance = 20
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
        
        change_orbit = @base_moon_distance
        
        moon = {
            count = { min = 0 max = 1 }
            orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
            orbit_distance = 5
        }
    }

    init_effect = {
        spawn_megastructure = {
            type = "gateway_ruined"
            random_pos = yes
            orbit_angle = 360        # range of the randomization
        }
    }
}

Leviathan Systems lock out against Empire Cluster, FE Cluster and even being in a Chockepoint System.

Of coruse the order in wich Systems are spawned does mater a bit.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

@The Founder Just so you know "wich" is an archaic English word that means "saltworks." You are trying to use the word "which," which is the pronoun that you are trying to use.

 

[The Founder]

@The Founder Just so you know "wich" is an archaic English word that means "saltworks." You are trying to use the word "which," which is the pronoun that you are trying to use.

I have given up the hope of ever writing anything without mistake years ago.

Except "Gestalt Consciousness". For some reason I always write that one word without error on the first try.

 

[LeanneKaos]

Seems like it depend on luck, optimization and preferences? In my game with Luxury DA(so i needed even more minerals), i had no problems at all with Alloys, even with few minaral deposits nearby. And at the same time i was always starved for influence.

I'm luxury on my machines as well, but also mass produced. Might be the combination throwing my mineral drain up?
Or maybe I've just fallen into habits to compensate for the Influence bottleneck and don't even notice it anymore. Either way, I still usually get more than 'my share' of territory by the time peaceful expansion opportunities run out and after that the only thing I still need influence for are the two production edicts (Capacity Overload and Production Targets.) But that's a byproduct of the Assimilation CB so wouldn't apply to 'regular' machine empires. (OTOH, I think they can use rivalries to boost their influence output.)

On unrelated to ME bufs note, Jobs priorities are still messed up? I have DA with Machine(+ amenities production) and Cyborgs(+ science and + energy) and while Cyborgs were always prioritized for Energy jobs, for some reason Machines and Cyborgs are always mixed for Maintenance and Calculator jobs (not to mention Coordinators, but for for it, the bonus is small anyway).

Priorities are a bit odd. My 'borgs are Food and Energy, while my machines are Science; it does a good job putting the Machines into Calculator jobs, and Borgs into food jobs... except where it decides I don't actually need food so it throws them elsewhere. Energy often winds up mixed though, and a lot of that seems to be from Borgs getting pulled up into Replicator jobs and not shuffling back down when a Machine could take it's place.
It's also very consistent about putting Cyborgs into my Hunter-Seeker slot... which does get me better damage on the defensive armies they spawn so I guess that's a good thing? (Though they are vulnerable to morale damage, so it might be a wash.)

Also, I've seen it mentioned in a few other threads but I'll drop it here as well: the Strong and Weak traits do not affect drone jobs. You still get the affects on army strength, but the bonus/malus to workers is apparently for workers only - the equivalent drone jobs don't count.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

I have given up the hope of ever writing anything without mistake years ago.

Except "Gestalt Consciousness". For some reason I always write that one word without error on the first try.

I often misspell "consciousness" myself. I only brought it up because I've seen you use the word wich a dozen or so times. I'm not calling you out or anything.

 

[The Founder]

I often misspell "consciousness" myself. I only brought it up because I've seen you use the word wich a dozen or so times. I'm not calling you out or anything.

No problem. As I said, I perpetually make mistakes.

I mean there are actuall articles on the Wiki that I originally wrote. And 1 year later people are still finding mistakes in my original writing.

 

[M@ni@c]

I mean there are actuall articles on the Wiki that I originally wrote. And 1 year later people are still finding mistakes in my original writing.

There are three spelling errors in your signature.