[Dev Team] 2.0.2 Beta Patch updated [8.3.2018][checksum 5b9d]

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RandomZach

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@Ariphaos my mistake, sorry! I'd imagine that just uploading an error log wouldn't be super helpful for them since they could just do this themselves. If you went through it and could make specific bug reports on the most common things that'd probably be a lot more useful, especially if you could then attach the save or find an actual cause.
 

Emraldis

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p85EuVkLBoeQtJldzPzW4Xume7AFUqJ9TQgeyaiAnvU.png


Unsure if bug, but definitely seems like it. I've been in this war for ~15 years now. Literally nothing has happened: no battles, no conquests, no occupation. I haven't even seen one of the enemy's ships, yet I'm sitting at 100% WE (and suffering the negative Unity/Happiness negatives for it).
Is your opponent a militarist? Militarist ethos and certain techs reduce war exhaustion rate.
 

Bhruic

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The issue I'm talking about isn't in create_pirate_fleet, it's specifically in the event pirate.2. create_pirate_fleet seems to expect the event target 'pirate_home' to be a planet. In all the other instances where create_pirate_fleet is called, pirate_home is set to a planet except for this one instance.

Right, I see the problem now. It's weird, it's the only instance where they try and create a pirate fleet at the station, rather than the planet it orbits. A fix really should be as simple as removing lines 376-380, as there shouldn't be any need to re-set "pirate_home", that should already properly exist as the correct planet.
 

Redswingarcus

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Hi all, Jamor here again.

We're ready with the latest round of updates to the 2.0.2 rolling beta, building upon what was done in the Tuesday update. I'm making it live right now. Progress is ongoing and we're knocking off as many critical bugs and balance items as we can, and I'll continue to push those to you at reasonable intervals. Will let you know as soon as a new version is ready, as always. In the meantime, thanks so much for all you feedback! It really does help in the end, even if we can't act on all of it right away.

#################################################################
######################## VERSION 2.0.2c ###########################
#################################################################

###################
# Feature
#..
* Ether Drake Hatchling and Psionic Avatar can no longer be merged into other fleets or assigned leaders
* Assist Research is no longer researched by technology, and is instead unlocked by a Discovery tradition


###################
# ..t "2.0.2_beta"

why am i not allowed to merge the drake hatcling with a fleet. I will killed instantly alone what is a fun of a single unit it can not survive?
Or did i translate it wrong.
in all my games 2.0 and 1.92 i did merge them so it will not be allowed anymore?

So the dragon is only allowed to quard a starbase and you must have 2 fleets needed to guard the dragon?
 

mathcube

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@Nebuka the file is not unbalanced. You are counting wrong. The file breaks because of your change, not because there is a second issue.

@pejot My previous fix is wrong, but im pretty sure that's the issue. I'm not 100% sure, but i think 'fleet = { orbit = { save_event_target_as = pirate_home } }" ought to work.

This fix seems to be working on my end. I'm currently spectating a game that's still in the 2200's. Before applying your fix I was getting error log spam every time a pirate fleet would return to its home system. After applying your fix the pirates are returning home and not generating any errors while doing so. One thing I've noticed is pirate fleets aren't repairing when they return home, but I'm honestly not sure that isn't normal behavior.

Right, I see the problem now. It's weird, it's the only instance where they try and create a pirate fleet at the station, rather than the planet it orbits. A fix really should be as simple as removing lines 376-380, as there shouldn't be any need to re-set "pirate_home", that should already properly exist as the correct planet.

You'd think so, but when I tried that it resulted in a new error along with the existing one.
 

Digressor808

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Unsure if bug, but definitely seems like it. I've been in this war for ~15 years now. Literally nothing has happened: no battles, no conquests, no occupation. I haven't even seen one of the enemy's ships, yet I'm sitting at 100% WE (and suffering the negative Unity/Happiness negatives for it).

So you are the attacker? Seems like ticking war goals/exhaustion is still a thing, with the onus on the attacker to act decisively. Have you tried asking for SQ? What happens if you surrender there?
 

Peko?

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Texotic

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I'm actually in favor of Assist Research becoming a unity tradition; it means two less techs to research and more incentive to go down the left branch of Discovery... But Planetary Survey Corps and its hive/machine equivalents were already more than enough incentive, seeing that such an awesome research-boosting perk was replaced entirely is rather disappointing. Assist Research seems nice after the change, but whether it's as powerful as PSC is yet to be seen.
 

RandomZach

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@Bhruic That would be intuitive reading, yes. Unfortunately for your understanding, that isn't how event targets work. They are only scoped to the context of the specific instance of the event chain they fire in. So since pirate.2 is just a normal MTTH event, it has no context and must redefine all the event targets before calling create_pirate_fleet. If it used save_global_event_target_as instead of save_event_target_as then it'd work as you describe, but then there could only be one pirate system at a time! This explains the error @mathcube was seeing, as deleting those lines means that there's no event target set at all.
 
Last edited:

Shedovv

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First of all, I have just made my Forum Account specifically to post this. Second I sincerely apologise if what I am about to quote has already been posted here or in any of the previous 2.0.2 patch threads but I believe that at least the first 3 points would REALLY make the WE system work marvelously.

Originally by @Valentin Vattista
I have downloaded 2.02 now, and the Problem has shifted. The AI is now incapable of winning wars in the super late game. Since 2.02 is save game compatible, I continued my playthrough and started a second war with this Federation. War exhaustion took far longer to rise, which initially pleased me, and thus I was able to fight a war of attrition with them. But eventually, I reached 100% of course.

What happened then was not worse, but somewhat baffling to me. I'm playing a militaristic democracy with utopian living standards for everyone and the Harmony tree completed. I never even noticed the -20 (%) happines. The war continued for another 25 years after I hit 100% exhaustion, and since I had 1000 unity stored before that point and already had all of my desired traditions, I had little incentive to stop the war before taking 50% of the territory of the Federation and then calling it a day because I was getting tired.

The new system may be highly functional in the early game, but it renders war echaustion inconsequential in the late game. Especially for democracies, the form of government which should suffer from war exhaustion the most. The new system allows me to fight wars according to my capabilities, but it might aswell not exist due to how inconsequential it can get.

My Idea towards how the penalties should work is the following:

1. Instead of a flat -20 (%) in happines, one should get a -10 (%) each year for the first Ten years, -20 (%) each year for the subsequent decade etc. Thus, one would hit -300 (%) happines after 20 years. It's going to change very little in the early and midgame, but it will keep the system relevant in the very late game, because no amount of utopian living standards or chemical bliss will save you from a population which is basically running Amok at some point.

This change will however allow wars to last longer the bigger and the more advanced and Wealthy your empire is, which is a good thing in my book.

2. Instead of making influence gain a flat zero, the pacifist faction should start existing as soon as you hit 100% war exhaustionif it isn't around already, and gain 20-100% ethics Attraction each year. Additionaly, it should get a negative happines modifier for each peace offer you reject. Thus, you will essentially be confronted with an ever-growing angry Mob of pacifists while all of your other factions are slowly but surely being rendered insignificant. This will cause you to lose your influence from factions pretty quickly. Especially if the pacifists get a dice roll each year which allows them to infect another faction with a "pacifist influence" modifier, which makes them angry aswell. This last part of course shouldn't work with militarists and Nazis, but they should still lose pops to the pacifists.

Furthermore, factions should be able to enforce their Ideology on the state if they hit 75-85% Pop support and their faction leader is currently the ruler. That's of course so that democracies and oligarchies -within which the pacifists will start to win elections- are less able to fight prolonged wars than dictatorships and empires. Because that's just more authentic. And if you have pacifists in power at this stage of the war, well... what about the forced status quo making a return in this specific situation, because the pacifists have taken control.

3. I know that this is a little stupid, but since unity is generated not by how conformist or happy your pops are with your current Ideology but by buildings, pacifist pops which sit in unity producing buildings should refuse to work, thus gradually reducing unity.

4. This is more of a Personals thing than a real suggestion: Give admirals and generals the ability to rebell with their navies/Armies fight you and stage a coup d'etat if one of the following falls true:
-your population has over 75-85% pacifist support, is not a democracy/oligarchy and said admiral/general belongs to the pacifists.
-your population has over 75-85% percent pacifist support, has elected the leader of the pacifist faction as ruler (and thus is a democracy/oligarchy), or is ruled by a pacifist for some reason which now enforcer pacifist ideologies, and said general/Admiral is part of the militarist/nationalist faction.

The coup d'etat should be successful if your Capital planet is conquered by the rebels, and they should enforce their ethics and Ideology. And to add a little something to this, you should be able to choose if you want to lead the loyalists or the rebels in this civil war. Just like in HOI IV or total war empire.

Aside from point 4. As I was reading this in his original thread I was ready to sign under EVERY DARNED WORD.
 

Margerium

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I still appear to have the misaligned ringworld bug, no mods enabled and on the latest beta patch checksum da0f. Sorry if this has already been posted, I only skim read through.
 

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Person012345

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I can attest that they seem a little strong now. The unbidden spawned, about quarter of the galaxy away from me on the other side of closed borders so I couldn't immediately begin destroying their stations. By the time I was able to get at them (in the aftermath of a war with our neighbours with forced open borders so they still aren't too big geographically) they were spamming like 10 fleets of 70k strength all on one side of their border, and more in other directions (presumably a similar number). I'm not especially strong as I'm not playing a militarily minded empire although obviously I am still among the strongest powers in the galaxy at this time because AI, and my entire fleet might, on a good day, be able to go toe to toe with one of those stacks although it would likely still lose. If my federation would co-ordinate properly we might be able to take down a few of them, but we couldn't stand up to them long term as they slowly chew through our systems. IF the federation would co-ordinate properly.

This might be mitigated if disengagement worked properly/as I hoped, but right now I'm taking similar casualties in lost battles as I always have pre-2.0 with the vast majority of the fleet being obliterated (I've made a post about this in suggestions). This isn't sustainable. If my fleet was mostly still alive but damaged with a +25% disengage general and hit and run tactics then there would at least be some hope of maybe being able to fend them off through attrition.
This is something I said in the previous thread and I just wanted to say, happily, that my initial assessment may have been incorrect. It's been a while since I actually encountered a crisi, and I may have underestimated the improvements to the AI and, indeed, the effect of the new war system on end game crises. The AI has actually done a really good job of getting around and picking off unbidden stations (idk how unbidden fleet spawning works in the new system though) and attacking fleets here and there weakening them, so that it's easier for my main fleet (which I have managed to build up to take out the unbidden stacks) to deliver the final blow and pick isolated fleets off. They've even been combining fleets to take down stacks. It's still a struggle but it looks like the galaxy has actually united into a reasonably effective counter to the unbidden right now. This may not be nearly as OP as it initially appeared. Unbidden fleets are slow which I think nicely counters their raw strength.
 

Admiral_Obvious

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I've not had a chance to try the newest version of the patch, but has the issue where the AI "nopes" out of helping deal with a crisis been fixed yet?
 

botlord

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Pretty irritated that the Discovery tree changes were pushed in this beta patch. I opted in assuming that most of the changes were going to be to mechanics introduced in 2.0. These changes to the Discovery tree came out of nowhere and they broke my play-through.
 

Peko?

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@Peko? it definitely is weird! It's also possible that it's a combination of effects from this patch. For example, there is this bug report that pirates can spawn through unopened wormholes. That could have an impact here as it would let a pirate base sit around basically indefinitely. I hope my solution works for you but I'm not 100% convinced myself.
A combination does seem like the most probable scenario to me. It fixes the lag and the log which seems most important for now, I'll see if there are any obvious issues with pirate spawns when I have the time to play for a few hours.
 
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