Dev Diary 9: It's just a flesh wound!

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Groogy

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Hello guys!

So today we will be talking about some changes we have made to make our combat less bloody, which has particularly been an issue since patch 2.4. We have also worked on making the outcome of entire wars not be decided in one stroke by whomever happens to have pissed off Lady Fortuna...

First off, we have adopted the “shattered retreat” from EU4, meaning when an army is defeated it will run back to somewhere relatively safe so that the enemy can’t keep ping-ponging it until it is annihilated. Peasant rabble that rises against your enlightened and glorious rule, however, will immediately disperse on defeat so you don’t have to chase them down. But nobles within your realm that betray you and revolt will try and run for a safe haven.

capture(49).png


The second feature we have added is that while your damaged army is at home it will reinforce its levies directly (rather than the Holding garrison), meaning you can choose if you want to employ the garrisoned levies immediately by dismissing and re-raising your levies, or decide it is too risky (since your army will then be split all over your Kingdom and be easy pickings for the enemy) and instead choose to have your army stand back and rest for a while and be slowly refilled with troops instead.

The equation for how losses were calculated has also been changed. Before, it was based on the troops getting damaged by almost exponential amounts. This could, in some cases, cause really ridiculous damage like 2 million casualties, when it was armies of thousands fighting each other. This has been changed, and the associated values tweaked severely to prevent the crazy casualties yet still ensure that enough soldiers die in battles. For math nerds this is how it works now:

Defending means here the unit taking damage, both units will be defending and attacking at the same time and does not denote who initiated the combat. DamagePerMan is a value calculated as a even distribution of the total damage each soldier takes.
Code:
((DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue) * AmountOfDefendingTroops = LossesInTroops
Has been changed to
Code:
(DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue = LossesInTroops
Not a very big change but it does have profound effects on the result.

Beside simple combat mechanic changes there have been some improvements and bug fixes to the AI to give players a better challenge, focusing mostly on making allied AIs coordinate better between themselves. Oh, and the Mongol AI has been given its balls back, making them a lot more aggressive than they ever were before...

You asked for it….
 
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Voigt

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Nothing new about the Combatsystem, since this was already guessed with your teaserpicture, nonetheless a great change.

And strong Mongols, I like it.
 
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Fair enough.
 

Quaade

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up to what point do they reinforce to? The amount that were previously raised or the max amount that could have been raised, meaning that raising an army that´s not full yet, will reinforce while being "safe" up to max?
 
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Groogy

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And strong Mongols, I like it.

Not strong, we made them more aggressive, there were various modifiers like "Oh I am getting old so I shouldn't expand" and stuff the AI thinks about. You know pesky problems the Mongols don't have.
 
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Castorem

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Oh, and the Mongol AI has been given its balls back
That's all I wanted to hear. Finally. Thank you Paradox.
 
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Jorlem

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Code:
(DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue * AmountOfDefendingTroops = LossesInTroops
By this, do you mean that the old equation was
Code:
(DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / (DefenseValue * AmountOfDefendingTroops) = LossesInTroops
or
Code:
((DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue) * AmountOfDefendingTroops = LossesInTroops
 
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Shebaloso

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The reinforcement changes are great!

But why is this "shattered retreat" a thing? I mean, aren't battles in this game supposed to be much more decisive than in eu4? Perhaps it's just me, but i very much liked the old mechanics. I had to think very carefully where and when i would be engaging an enemy army, if there was a river crossing or defensible terrain to allow a feasible retreat, and so forth. In a game where there is no "manpower" such as this one, battles become pretty much irrelevant with this change. I don't know if i like this at all
 
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Oh, and the Mongol AI has been given its balls back
Does it means that, in a most unfortunate course of action, I'd get the old AI back if I were to cut it off? :D
 
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Jorlem

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The second feature we have added is that while your damaged army is at home it will reinforce its levies directly (rather than the Holding garrison), meaning you can choose if you want to employ the garrisoned levies immediately by dismissing and re-raising your levies, or decide it is too risky (since your army will then be split all over your Kingdom and be easy pickings for the enemy) and instead choose to have your army stand back and rest for a while and be slowly refilled with troops instead.
You mention that dismissing and reraising will still be possible, but how will that work if the reinforcements are going directly to the raised levy rather than the holding? Wouldn't it amount to the same thing, but with the troops now scattered, as the holding levies wouldn't have refilled?
 

QDI

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You mention that dismissing and reraising will still be possible, but how will that work if the reinforcements are going directly to the raised levy rather than the holding? Wouldn't it amount to the same thing, but with the troops now scattered, as the holding levies wouldn't have refilled?

Refilling is slow :)
 
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telge2

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Cute! Hopefully Mongols will be as monstrous and scary as they were in the good old times. Or more :)
 
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Hello guys!

So today we will be talking about some changes we have made to make our combat less bloody, which has particularly been an issue since patch 2.4. We have also worked on making the outcome of entire wars not be decided in one stroke by whomever happens to have pissed off Lady Fortuna...

First off, we have adopted the “shattered retreat” from EU4, meaning when an army is defeated it will run back to somewhere relatively safe so that the enemy can’t keep ping-ponging it until it is annihilated. Peasant rabble that rises against your enlightened and glorious rule, however, will immediately disperse on defeat so you don’t have to chase them down. But nobles within your realm that betray you and revolt will try and run for a safe haven.

View attachment 143654

The second feature we have added is that while your damaged army is at home it will reinforce its levies directly (rather than the Holding garrison), meaning you can choose if you want to employ the garrisoned levies immediately by dismissing and re-raising your levies, or decide it is too risky (since your army will then be split all over your Kingdom and be easy pickings for the enemy) and instead choose to have your army stand back and rest for a while and be slowly refilled with troops instead.

The equation for how losses were calculated has also been changed. Before, it was based on the troops getting damaged by almost exponential amounts. This could, in some cases, cause really ridiculous damage like 2 million casualties, when it was armies of thousands fighting each other. This has been changed, and the associated values tweaked severely to prevent the crazy casualties yet still ensure that enough soldiers die in battles. For math nerds this is how it works now:

Defending means here the unit taking damage, both units will be defending and attacking at the same time and does not denote who initiated the combat. DamagePerMan is a value calculated as a even distribution of the total damage each soldier takes.
Code:
((DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue) * AmountOfDefendingTroops = LossesInTroops
Has been changed to
Code:
(DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue = LossesInTroops
Not a very big change but it does have profound effects on the result.

Beside simple combat mechanic changes there have been some improvements and bug fixes to the AI to give players a better challenge, focusing mostly on making allied AIs coordinate better between themselves. Oh, and the Mongol AI has been given its balls back, making them a lot more aggressive than they ever were before...

You asked for it….
Nice changes but about those formulas, since you only have multiplicatile operators the parathesises are redundant you might as well have written:
AmountOfDefendingTroops^2.
Which would have made the changes more obvious, and the old formula was not exponentital it was quadratic, and now it's linear. I'm not usually a big fan of linear, but I can't think of a better formula myself.

Oh and mongols becomming more aggresive I hope that only applies to the mongols (and perhaps the seljuks) and not all the nomads.
 
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MCBC6

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Does it means that, in a most unfortunate course of action, I'd get the old AI back if I were to cut it off? :D
Oh you Byzantines and your castration
 
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Voigt

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The reinforcmen system is about, if your troops in your holdings already recovered.

- Raised Levies
- Fought a battle, lost troops
- walking around in the front, still have a big army left
- your Garrisons slowly refill
- now you could disband your army and reraise it to change your Armysize back to the max
- or now you could just take your army back into your land, and let them stay there, the garrison troops slowly wander into your army, and refill them
 

Tufto

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Excellent! I've always been fond of the shattered retreat mechanic, so I like this addition.

And proper Mongol AI is fantastic! I am already looking forward to the hundreds of whiny threads about how powerful the Mongols are again because they invaded Poland/Russia/Persia :) that's the kind of Mongol power we really need. I want to defend against a proper apocalyptic army, damnit :p.
 
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Oahkoah

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Does the trickle of reinforcements only happen on your completely controlled territory, or does it happen when you have won a siege and control the territory too?
 
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Korashy

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I saw this coming a few weeks ago and I still hate it. Shattered retreat is annoying as hell, especially since the AI can keep pulling units out of their ass.
 
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Frozen Yakman

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By this, do you mean that the old equation was
Code:
(DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / (DefenseValue * AmountOfDefendingTroops) = LossesInTroops
or
Code:
((DamagePerMan * AmountOfDefendingTroops) / DefenseValue) * AmountOfDefendingTroops = LossesInTroops

It is almost certainly the latter, as the former would massively reduce casualties.
 
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