Dev Diary #3: Buildings discussion by Panel of Idiots who know nothing (Spudgun)

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cdub8d

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These guys usually provide a different perspective and actually dive into details and speculate how said mechanics could work in Vicky 3. Which is far more interesting and in depth discussion compared to most posts here. Maybe instead of personal attacks let's focus on actually discussing the podcast?
 
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Moppy771

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I'm pretty sure using a proxy to circumvent the rules isn't really kosher either.
I'm a longtime member of this forum, i'm not a Spudgun sleeper agent
 
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Guedes

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If it is against forums rules, report it and follow along.

I feel most people criticizing it here already have a pre formed opinion against the podcast and are criticizing it just for the sake of it.

This last episode was mostly positive regarding the game and yet people are reacting like it was quite the opposite.
 
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cdub8d

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I pretty much agreed with them on capacities when reading the brief myself. The buildings brief seemed pretty good and I was curious what their thoughts are. I am in the middle of watching now but curious if they bring up micro hell possibilities from buildings and such. IE Stellaris
 

Rhel

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Jesus Christ people! I think they're being overly negative too, but can we maybe not have a slap-fest over whether someone gets to link to their content in their Sig? No-one cares about your deep moral evaluation of whether that makes them a hypocrite or not. If you disagree with the video, maybe try saying so and explaining why?

Besides, much as I don't understand why anyone would play 4x/GSG competitively without an element of RP it's good to have experienced players discussing the nitty gritty of the game. Even if I end up disagreeing with them.
 
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JBolt

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Very good stream, finally we had less doomer and more optimism. Now lets hope he doesnt invite more doomers to the stream!!!!!
No, more doomers!
This and the point they brought up about Pops not being set to provincial level is something that is very worrying for me. Removing the abstraction of pops being provincial level and being only state level really is a step back in terms of the simulation of the game, especially when it comes to culture breakdown of territories. You only need to bring up the word 'Balkans' or Silesia and the issue of just splitting population and culture by a mathematical ratio already seems like a massive blunder. And if they weigh each territory already so you get x amount of pops or y amount of culture, then why not just go all the way? It's an abstraction that's gonna cause them more headache than if they just did Provincial pops anyway. The other issue is the whole problem that resources don't seem to be Provincial level either and instead it's just state wide. I was originally really excited for the ability to split up states, but how do they determine what resources you get from that split now? Is it also just a percentage split? Even if you only wish to try and take say, the coal and iron deposits in a state, you'll still only end up taking a mathematical chunk? Or will it be 'weighted' as well?

At some level this abstraction is kind of inevitable though thanks to major decision I believe that they are quickly coming to regret: Using the HoI4 Map. 13k provinces is way way too precise to ever get accurate population figures for each small patch of land around the world, and has likely drove them to this 'State only' approach. A way to alleviate this if they don't wanna go with shrinking the province number (which I believe they should half it and make it Imperator level) would be to break states up into smaller 'counties' that work like provinces in Vic 2 possibly, you still manage things from a state level but it allocates urban centers and buildings depending on which of the counties would have that resource, and is the lowest abstraction of where Pops reside. They've already seem to be doing this sort of by splitting up states smaller and smaller (California being made 5 states lmfao), and I think they really need to just bite the bullet and decide if they are gonna shrink the province count or come up with an in-between division (Province and 'Territories').
California being 5 states is weird. How much infamy/threat do you need to take California then? In Vic2 it was just one thing, so taking it was not cost heavy. Which makes a ton of sense seeing how the Mexican American war ended with the US taking giant swathes of territory. You need that happy medium of Vic2 sized provinces, and keep the state system. What should be done IMO and what you mention is to keep the Vic2 system of states, then provinces, and then put HOI4 tiles underneath the provinces. That way you get population simulation, but also your military stuff for WW1. And, your provinces are just groups of your tiles, like each province gets 4 tiles or so. That would be my ideal Vic3 map design.
 

G0DOG

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California being 5 states is weird. How much infamy/threat do you need to take California then? In Vic2 it was just one thing, so taking it was not cost heavy. Which makes a ton of sense seeing how the Mexican American war ended with the US taking giant swathes of territory. You need that happy medium of Vic2 sized provinces, and keep the state system. What should be done IMO and what you mention is to keep the Vic2 system of states, then provinces, and then put HOI4 tiles underneath the provinces. That way you get population simulation, but also your military stuff for WW1. And, your provinces are just groups of your tiles, like each province gets 4 tiles or so. That would be my ideal Vic3 map design.
I assume they will use EU4 style weighting for provinces depending on the population size for war score and threat, and if you have cores or not (you gained 0 infamy for taking your cores in Vic 2 and I imagine for the Mexican-American war you will have cores from manifest destiny as well) so I'm not too worried about that, more worried about the depth that is lost from pops not being on the map so to speak and just floating around in states.

The other issue I had is with warfare too, while the HoI4 map may seem like a good fit for WW1 warfare I feel like it'll be a a bit too clunky for wars before there were entrenched front lines. I don't think the hard switch to having Hoi4 frontlines the moment you hit 1900 will be a good idea. I would almost wish for combat to go back to Vic 1 style that was based more on Hoi2, or something completely new, but having more than 6x the amount of provinces and having armies be managed at the provincial level kind of necessitates some level of automation.
 
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Larkh

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So, I didn't watch the stream or the last one (workwork) but I really do like the content creator (his mp videos are dope). I have watched the first stream (about DD1), interesting but too much doomer-run for the little me tbh, so I passed. ^^'

Has somebody summarize those hours, what they did discuss, critic or question ?
 

Alfred Dreyfus

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Good podcast guys! As a suggestion I have to say I would prefer if you guys focused a bit more on the topic: the game. I mean, I like your humor and some off-topic is nice, but I think there is a bit too much.

On the other side, I have to say I'm completely amazed with this forum. There is huge hate for criticism. Why? Criticism is good. I can't believe some people are fanboys of a game that hasn't even been released and just had 3 short dev diaries, specially when that fanboyism is coming from people who don't even enjoy Vic2.
 
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Good podcast guys! As a suggestion I have to say I would prefer if you guys focused a bit more on the topic: the game. I mean, I like your humor and some off-topic is nice, but I think there is a bit too much.

On the other side, I have to say I'm completely amazed with this forum. There is huge hate for criticism. Why? Criticism is good. I can't believe some people are fanboys of a game that hasn't even been released and just had 3 short dev diaries, specially when that fanboyism is coming from people who don't even enjoy Vic2.
Cool to know that you’re the arbiter of who is and is not a real Vicky 2 fan.
 
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safferli

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Stick to the topic/content. If you believe rules are circumvented and can make a case, please contact the administrators.
 

Moppy771

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Something I do want to address is the concern they've brought up about the nature of states and pops. In a different thread I suggested the devs release the tile or state map very soon so that we can get a better idea of how detailed pop placement will be, especially for territories such as the Balkans.
 
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Something I do want to address is the concern they've brought up about the nature of states and pops. In a different thread I suggested the devs release the tile or state map very soon so that we can get a better idea of how detailed pop placement will be, especially for territories such as the Balkans.
There isn't much point in the devs releasing anything until they are ready to talk about it though. Surely the timeline will be driven by how development is progressing, and how comfortable the team are with the feature(s) they plan to talk about? No point in giving us a load of detail on a system which could well change fairly significantly before release.
 
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There isn't much point in the devs releasing anything until they are ready to talk about it though. Surely the timeline will be driven by how development is progressing, and how comfortable the team are with the feature(s) they plan to talk about? No point in giving us a load of detail on a system which could well change fairly significantly before release.
Surely there can't be a more stronger incentive to the developers than to spark a debate on the forums over the Balkans though.
 
  • 3Haha
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