Dev Diary #3: Buildings discussion by Panel of Idiots who know nothing (Spudgun)

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Spudgun_

Second Lieutenant
25 Badges
Feb 11, 2012
162
450
  • Darkest Hour
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
:rolleyes:

Person calling themselves expert on something while not even doing basic research on the topic can be criticized on that without the person criticizing needing to go through expert's whole production.

You didn't even read the name of the stream this time, let alone watching it :p
 
  • 5Like
  • 5
  • 3
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

Kazanov

Tawantinsuyu Irredentist
85 Badges
May 30, 2016
1.543
9.354
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
Imagine watching streams while being older than 18.

I demand a wall of text to understand why people are complaining.
 
  • 7Haha
  • 3Like
  • 3Love
Reactions:

NotASpamBot

Recruit
32 Badges
Jun 10, 2020
8
132
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • March of the Eagles
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
Imagine watching streams while being older than 18.

I demand a wall of text to understand why people are complaining.
The previous vic3 discussion streams of this streamer/Youtuber included them labeling themselves "experts". And one of the group members shared very negative opinions on vic3 and some tinfoil hat conspiracies (paraphrasing the guy himself). the streamer changed the word "experts" with "idiots" invited a guy who has a more positive outlook on the project. and said the person sharing the negative opinions only represents his own opinions, not the entire group.
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Guedes

First Lieutenant
11 Badges
Feb 16, 2018
206
146
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • Magicka 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
I liked it.

Regarding the "lets try to do something great" argument; you guys have to understand this company isnt the same as it was 10 years ago. They wont risk here. This is a big company now and if they have the choice to take the safe road and deliver a good result, thats what they gonna do.
 

Piechucker_

Recruit
Jun 8, 2021
4
43
I liked it.

Regarding the "lets try to do something great" argument; you guys have to understand this company isnt the same as it was 10 years ago. They wont risk here. This is a big company now and if they have the choice to take the safe road and deliver a good result, thats what they gonna do.
Glad you enjoyed it - yeah you are absolutely correct and it’s a bit heartbreaking
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:

G0DOG

Corporal
47 Badges
Feb 7, 2015
38
36
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Darkest Hour
I think Nurse Reno on the panel had a very good point about occupation of costal states, which is that if all costal provinces are occuipied what happens to the fishing RGOs? Of course this assumes that occupation works on a provincial level, but it also rings true for other industries like coal, iron, ect. Is there any mechanic in game which stops workers from working at certain rgos if those areas are occupied?
This and the point they brought up about Pops not being set to provincial level is something that is very worrying for me. Removing the abstraction of pops being provincial level and being only state level really is a step back in terms of the simulation of the game, especially when it comes to culture breakdown of territories. You only need to bring up the word 'Balkans' or Silesia and the issue of just splitting population and culture by a mathematical ratio already seems like a massive blunder. And if they weigh each territory already so you get x amount of pops or y amount of culture, then why not just go all the way? It's an abstraction that's gonna cause them more headache than if they just did Provincial pops anyway. The other issue is the whole problem that resources don't seem to be Provincial level either and instead it's just state wide. I was originally really excited for the ability to split up states, but how do they determine what resources you get from that split now? Is it also just a percentage split? Even if you only wish to try and take say, the coal and iron deposits in a state, you'll still only end up taking a mathematical chunk? Or will it be 'weighted' as well?

At some level this abstraction is kind of inevitable though thanks to major decision I believe that they are quickly coming to regret: Using the HoI4 Map. 13k provinces is way way too precise to ever get accurate population figures for each small patch of land around the world, and has likely drove them to this 'State only' approach. A way to alleviate this if they don't wanna go with shrinking the province number (which I believe they should half it and make it Imperator level) would be to break states up into smaller 'counties' that work like provinces in Vic 2 possibly, you still manage things from a state level but it allocates urban centers and buildings depending on which of the counties would have that resource, and is the lowest abstraction of where Pops reside. They've already seem to be doing this sort of by splitting up states smaller and smaller (California being made 5 states lmfao), and I think they really need to just bite the bullet and decide if they are gonna shrink the province count or come up with an in-between division (Province and 'Territories').
 
  • 15Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Spartakusbund

Banned
75 Badges
Oct 7, 2016
1.496
7.039
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
I think Nurse Reno on the panel had a very good point about occupation of costal states, which is that if all costal provinces are occuipied what happens to the fishing RGOs? Of course this assumes that occupation works on a provincial level, but it also rings true for other industries like coal, iron, ect. Is there any mechanic in game which stops workers from working at certain rgos if those areas are occupied?
I’d assume there must be, or major parts of warfare in the era is going to be lost. Sherman’s March to the sea makes no sense if you can’t sever rail lines and burn plantations. At the same time, I hope you don’t have to do those things. If I’m trying to liberate East Poland from Russia as a Poland player, I don’t want to be starving my people just because Russia drags its feet on making peace.

As for how it would be work in game, they’ve shown that buildings are represented on the map. We don’t know enough about how they’re distributed to say how that’ll effect occupations, though.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Heatth

General
71 Badges
Apr 1, 2012
2.058
3.917
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
As for how it would be work in game, they’ve shown that buildings are represented on the map. We don’t know enough about how they’re distributed to say how that’ll effect occupations, though.
At very least, if the buildings are on the map I think it is very safe to assume if the province the building is located is occupied, so will the building. Like, I am very curious about what happen to the employees of the building (do they become unemployed or do they work for the occupiers?) but I think assuming occupation will have no economical impact, despite this being a thing in every Paradox game, is just baseless pessimism.
 

Kriegsspieler

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Feb 27, 2003
10.454
1.252
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
I liked it.

Regarding the "lets try to do something great" argument; you guys have to understand this company isnt the same as it was 10 years ago. They wont risk here. This is a big company now and if they have the choice to take the safe road and deliver a good result, thats what they gonna do.
Heavens -- give them a chance, I say. We have barely seen how the game will look in its final form, and nothing revealed so far should make us think that it will be either dumbed down or uninteresting. I too have made my share of criticisms of Paradox over the years, but this is really kind of overboard.
And by the way, the "great" company that Paradox was 10 years ago had recently released a disastrous version of HOI and also EU3, which was criticized as bland and an empty shell on release. Accurately too, in my opinion. So let's not indulge in fantasy nostalgia here.
 
  • 7
  • 1
Reactions:

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.126
17.784
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
I liked it.

Regarding the "lets try to do something great" argument; you guys have to understand this company isnt the same as it was 10 years ago. They wont risk here. This is a big company now and if they have the choice to take the safe road and deliver a good result, thats what they gonna do.
Yes, taking the safe road and delivering a good result is always a better option than the alternative.

Of course, for all we know making Victoria 3 at all is the big risk the company is taking in the first place. Never mind producing a Victoria 3 that make a game with an already very steep and inaccessible learning curve even more inaccessible.
 
  • 9
Reactions:

Guedes

First Lieutenant
11 Badges
Feb 16, 2018
206
146
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • Magicka 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
Heavens -- give them a chance, I say. We have barely seen how the game will look in its final form, and nothing revealed so far should make us think that it will be either dumbed down or uninteresting. I too have made my share of criticisms of Paradox over the years, but this is really kind of overboard.
And by the way, the "great" company that Paradox was 10 years ago had recently released a disastrous version of HOI and also EU3, which was criticized as bland and an empty shell on release. Accurately too, in my opinion. So let's not indulge in fantasy nostalgia here.

?

That has nothing to do with what i said and what i was referring to. Did you listened to the podcast? Do you know what the "lets risk and try to do something great" argument they used? From your response it seems you didnt and do not have a flying clue what i'm talking about.

And i'm precisely referring that paradox is a much bigger company now than it was 10 years ago and not the opposite.

Yes, taking the safe road and delivering a good result is always a better option than the alternative.

Of course, for all we know making Victoria 3 at all is the big risk the company is taking in the first place. Never mind producing a Victoria 3 that make a game with an already very steep and inaccessible learning curve even more inaccessible.

Than you totally agree with me.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.126
17.784
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Than you totally agree with me.
So you also think Paradox has been on the whole making good decisions with the direction of Victoria 3 so far?
 

Spartakusbund

Banned
75 Badges
Oct 7, 2016
1.496
7.039
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
I liked it.

Regarding the "lets try to do something great" argument; you guys have to understand this company isnt the same as it was 10 years ago. They wont risk here. This is a big company now and if they have the choice to take the safe road and deliver a good result, thats what they gonna do.
I mean, the two lead designers of Victoria 2 are the ones who made Imperator:Rome, which was heavily critiqued at launch for being far too conservative in its design. I don’t think this sentiment is really fair.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

wilcoxchar

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 15, 2004
5.126
17.784
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
Yes, "taking the safe road and delivering a good result" is always a good, singular option. There isn't a choice inherent in the statement, you can do both.
 

EU3NOOB

Field Marshal
57 Badges
Sep 29, 2011
4.598
2.844
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
We read the dev diary last week, we read it this week, and I directly addressed people who accused us of not reading the dev diary. How anyone can still be writing this, and actually agreeing with it, is beyond me. Absolute idiots.

Honestly, I generally don't watch your content to be informed, I watch it for the entertainment value, but you do you. Make whatever content you want. The Internet is at its best when all of us can share our views and opinions and criticisms of other's views and opinions without personal attacks.

It's my personal opinion that, since the game has only been announced less than a month ago and, while we can happily speculate about what we already know, we simply don't have enough information to declare with any certainty whether or not Vicky 3 will be good or not and yet there are plenty of people bickering at each other over this.

Another personal opinion of mine: Dev Diaries have a fundamental flaw: since they naturally come piecemeal, once a week (and not even every week; there are breaks) it can be hard to string the features discussed within them to form a coherent narrative on the overall gameplay. I tend to wait until I see preview gameplay from various YouTubers before I drop money on a PDX game. That helps tie everything together for me.

At the end of the day, no one is an expert on Vicky 3 except for the Devs so there's little reason to get angry over mere speculation. Spudgun and his friends can do as they please and express whatever opinion they wish and people can offer criticism to those opinions, but let's calm our tempers a bit, shall we? We're all gamers at the end of the day after all.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:

Hammrtime

Captain
83 Badges
Feb 2, 2016
357
2.314
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
After watching the first 3 videos and not being super impressed, this 4th video was much better in every way. The critiques were reasonable and on point. Having someone with a bit more optimism helped as well. Everyone scaled back their hot takes. They came prepared. Experienced players of the Vicky 2 with reasonable concerns or questions can only be good for making this game better.

As someone fairly hyped about the game, I didn't come away feeling like I was on some completely different page on the development of the game.

I could honestly recommend people to watch it. Take a look if you haven't. I hope they keep it up.
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions: