Dev Diary #24 - Fervor, Religious Hostility, and Doctrine Showcase

Dev Diary #24 - Fervor, Religious Hostility, and Doctrine Showcase

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Baron von Shoes

Content Designer
May 3, 2019
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Hello everyone, and welcome back to our final Dev Diary on Religion in Crusader Kings 3! Today I will be talking about what the mysterious Fervor is, how that ties into Heresies and Heresy Outbreaks, as well as how Religious Hostility works and some of the ways that Doctrines can impact it. To wrap things up, I will show off some additional never-before seen Tenets and Doctrines!

Fervor
Every Faith has a Fervor score, which is a representation of how strongly adherents of that Faith believe in the righteousness of their religious and secular leaders. While Fervor has a slow ticking increase over time, it is primarily influenced by the virtuousness or sinfulness of that Faith’s leaders. Virtuous priests can inspire a populace and rally the people behind themselves, while sinful ones (especially religious heads) can cause massive scandals that damage the faithful’s trust in their religious institutions.

DD_WM_Scandal.png
[A screenshot of the Pope looking very guilty after being caught in flagrante]

Adherents of a Faith with high Fervor are willing to fight and die for their beliefs. They gain bonus resistance to attempts to convert them to another faith, and both secular and religious leaders can declare Holy Wars to spread their Faith across the world. However, while these Holy Wars are ostensibly waged in the name of the divine, in practice they often tend to be little more than opportunistic land-grabs — as a result, every Holy War declared will slightly damage a Faiths’ Fervor, while losing land to hostile Holy Wars will actually increase your Faith’s Fervor as the embattled faithful dig in and fight for their way of life!

When a Faith’s Fervor drops, adherents of that Faith become vulnerable to conversion. Characters are more willing to accept a Demand Conversion when their Faith’s Fervor is low, and the Court Chaplain’s ‘Convert County’ task gains a scaling bonus against Faiths whose Fervor is lower than their own. In addition, if Fervor drops low enough, a Faith becomes vulnerable to heresy outbreaks!

Heresy Outbreaks
A heresy outbreak is what happens when a ruler becomes disillusioned with their current Faith and is swayed to join a different one. If there is already a heretical Faith present nearby, they will convert to that one automatically. If no suitable heresies are around, they will become a heresiarch and start espousing the doctrines of a brand new Faith, which is typically (but not always), one from their Religion.

A ruler who converts to or founds a new heretical Faith will then attempt to convince nearby rulers of their old Faith to join them, with the success rate of this being dependent on how low their old Faith’s fervor has fallen. This means that while heresy outbreaks can vary wildly in size, converts to the new heresy will tend to remain clustered together in a specific region — this both protects the burgeoning Faith while simultaneously limiting its influence in distant lands.

DD_WM_Heresy.png
[A screenshot showing an outbreak of Lollardy, originating in southern England]

As you can imagine, heresy outbreaks are incredibly divisive events; nobody wants to sit on the fence when your immortal soul is on the line! As a result, after a heresy outbreak occurs both the old Faith and the new heretical Faith will gain a substantial increase to their Fervor score. As this is likely to encourage Holy Wars for both sides, it is not uncommon for a new period of religious violence to follow as the two Faiths fight for supremacy!

Ultimately, the flow from scandal to heresy to zealousness and back will cause Fervor to vary wildly over the course of a game of CK3. Unlike the relatively static Mortal Authority in CK2, this means that even the big dominant religions will have periods of weakness, making them vulnerable to fractures and religious violence.

Religious Hostility
Speaking of religious violence, how does that work? With so many different Faiths and Religions in Crusader Kings III, how do they view each other? What is the difference between how an Orthodox ruler views a Catholic, a Bogomil, and an Ash’ari?

In Crusader Kings III this is all handled by the Religious Hostility system. For characters of a given Faith, every other Faith in the game will receive one of the following rankings:
  1. Righteous
  2. Astray
  3. Hostile
  4. Evil
Righteous is how a Faith views itself and, in a few rare circumstances, other Faiths that have certain things in common with it. Righteous Faiths have no penalties at all with each other.

Astray is how a Faith views other Faiths that have similar goals and ideals but are just a little… wrong. For example, Orthodoxy and Catholicism consider each other to be Astray. Astray Faiths have only a minor opinion penalty with each other.

Hostile is how most Faiths view their heresies and other significantly divergent Faiths. Opinion penalties are more substantial at this level, and rulers gain the ability to declare Holy Wars against rulers of Hostile Faiths. However, intermarriage is still common when it is politically convenient, and alliances can still be forged between rulers of Hostile Faiths.

Evil Faiths are considered to be an anathema, and cannot be tolerated. Evil Faiths suffer the most severe opinion penalty possible, and Holy Wars against each other become commonplace. Rulers will almost never accept marriages with characters of an Evil Faith, making alliances all-but-impossible.

So how is Religious Hostility determined? The primary factor is what Religion Family both Faiths belong to:

DD_Hostility.png
[A screenshot of a spreadsheet showing how base Religious Hostility is calculated, with Abrahamic Faiths being the least tolerant and Eastern Faiths being the most tolerant]

But wait, if Abrahamic Faiths view other Faiths within the same Religion has Hostile, why do Catholicism and Orthodoxy only see each other as Astray? The answer to that, my friend, is Doctrines!

Doctrine & Tenet Showcase
Now we’re going to take some time to reveal a bunch of the various Doctrines and Tenets available for Faiths in Crusader Kings 3. For starters, the Catholic, Orthodox, Apostolic, and Coptic Faiths all have the ‘Ecumenism’ Doctrine, which changes the Hostility of any other Faith with the same Doctrine to just ‘Astray’, thus allowing these Faiths to have cordial relations with each other.

DD_WM_Doctrine_Ecumenism.png
[A screenshot showing the Ecumenism doctrine, which reduces Hostility between certain Christian Faiths]

In a similar vein, the various Muslim Faiths all have a doctrine representing their belief in the true succession for Muhammad. The various Sunni Faiths all see each other as Astray, with the same being true for the collective Shia Faiths and the collective Muhakkima Faiths.

The embattled minority of Gnostic Faiths have an ever stronger version of this; having always struggled to have their beliefs accepted, they see all other Gnostic Faiths as being fully ‘Righteous’. This allows us to have coalitions of Faiths within or even outside of a Religion that see some Faiths as allies and others as enemies, completely changing the dynamic of how religious relations play out in Crusader Kings III.

DD_WM_Doctrine_Gnositism.png
[A screenshot showing the Gnosticism Tenet, which among other things eliminates Religious Hostility between Gnostic Faiths]

Finally there are other Tenets which can modify how your Faith sees, and is seen by, Faiths in other Religions.

DD_WM_Doctrine_Syncretism.png
[A screenshot showing various Syncretism Tenets, which reduce Religious Hostility across entire Religions]

Diplomacy not your thing? Try some warfare!

DD_WM_Tenets_Warfare.png
[A screenshot showing various warfare-focuses Doctrines and Tenets, including Armed Pilgrimages which enables Crusades]

Or is all of this just too secular for you? After all, isn’t religion supposed to be about spiritualism, a belief in otherworldly entities beyond our understanding? Well then maybe one of these tenets would suit you...

DD_WM_Tenets_Mysticism.png
[A screenshot showing various Tenets of a more spiritual nature: Astrology, Auspicious Birthright, Reincarnation, Sun Worship, Sky Burials, and Esotericism]

Of course, this is just a sample of the Tenets and Doctrines that we have in Crusader Kings 3. It would take too long to go into this level of detail for all of them, but here is a teaser of some available Tenets on the Faith Creation screen, showing both some previously revealed and unrevealed Tenets.

DD_WM_Tenets_List.png
[A snippet of a handful of available Tenets from the Faith Creation screen]

That’s all for now — hopefully this post has given you something to think about as you plan your first campaign of Crusader Kings III, and every one after that!
 

Nefertem

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My lord this looks good.
Just a tiny bit worried that at the end of a game the entire world will just be a hodgepodge of different heresies and new religions. Feels like it would be tricky to balance with the systems explained. Will there be dominant religions still if the fevor can be so fluctuating?
 
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DreadLindwyrm

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Interesting. In the final screenshot why are some tenets hatched out?
Are these already chosen, or somehow unavailable?

Is there any way to change the religious hostility value in game without changing tenets?
Could you in some fashion manage to make Catholics and Orthodox consider each other "Righteous", and thus co-valid paths to salvation? (Maybe as a first step in an eventual "mend the schism" pathway for future use?)
 
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Atalvyr

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How many doctrines can a religion have? 4 as seen for Catholicism?

Do you "add" them to a new religion the same way as tenets, or does you religion just "inherit" them from its "parent"?

I think having doctrines and tenets be so separate, while largely doing the same thing is very confusing. So far Catholicism has the tenets of "Armed Pilgrimages", "Communion" and "Monasticism" and the doctrines of "Male Dominated", "Righteous", "Theocratic" and "Ecumenism".
 

King Anund

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I have some questions about religion:
1. Is there a doctrine for how the Religious Head is chosen? For example, if it uses a College of Cardinals or another way of appointing him.
2. What does the Clerical function Clergy Doctrine do? For example we saw that Catholic Clergy's function was "Control". What does that mean?
3. What does the "Teachings of Jesus" doctrine do?
4. How does the Witchcraft Crime doctrine apply to Abrahamic and Pagan faiths?
 

Caeserion

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Great update! A few questions:

1. Do the greyed out tenets in the last screenshot mean they cannot be selected for whatever reason?
2. Does having no religious head make your fervor less volatile or does it default to being based off your realm court chaplain's traits?
3. How is Mending the Schism treated with these mechanics?
4. Is it possible to create a faith that is considered righteous by the parent faith but is still distinct? For example can I have a Church of France that is considered to be in Full Communion with the Pope in Rome?
5. Speaking of the Pope in Rome, is it possible for multiple religions to have the same religious head? Can the Pope be head of Catholicism and also Irish Insular Christianity? Or perhaps for the Kharjites to accept the Caliph in Baghdad as the true Caliph (as they did consider some of the Caliphs to be the rightful leader of the ummah)
 
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Asiak

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Will fervor be a map encompassing thing for that entire faith? Or is there any chance we might have more localized fervor / moral authority?

One of the things that I loved / hated about moral authority was how universal and trans-continental it was. One of my favorite things to do was what I called 'the match of the Irish.' Where you would start in tribal Ireland as a Catholic. And you would pick your duchy / lands in Ireland, and then just burn down the rest.

You as a Catholic Irish tribal can just burn down your own churches both in Ireland and England, and eventually widdle the moral authority down to the point where heresies would start popping up.

Now I see the heresy system is different and looks better. But the reality was in CK2 once you got that ball rolling, the heresies just snow balled and you could literally just burn Europe to the ground in heresy uprisings just raiding from Ireland.

So is moral authority still one value, or is there any sort of local aspect to it? Where like if some Irish dude is burning down churches, that doesn't make me in Italy less likely to convet.
 

Baron von Shoes

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May 3, 2019
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Just a tiny bit worried that at the end of a game the entire world will just be a hodgepodge of different heresies and new religions. Feels like it would be tricky to balance with the systems explained. Will there be dominant religions still if the fevor can be so fluctuating?
We have the AI play automated games every night, and the 'big' faiths like Catholicism and Ash'ari generally remain quite powerful. Even though they regularly suffer from heresy outbreaks, their sheer bulk and military might means they almost always end up re-asserting themselves as a dominant power.

Interesting. In the final screenshot why are some tenets hatched out? Are these already chosen, or somehow unavailable?
Unavailable due to being incompatible with currently selected Tenets/Doctrines. Switching the blocking Doctrine out for something else will enable them to be chosen.

Is there any way to change the religious hostility value in game without changing tenets? Could you in some fashion manage to make Catholics and Orthodox consider each other "Righteous", and thus co-valid paths to salvation? (Maybe as a first step in an eventual "mend the schism" pathway for future use?)
You need to use either a Tenet or a Doctrine to change religious hostility. Either option works just as well; Ecumenism is a Doctrine for example, while Christian Syncretism is a Tenet.

Currently only Gnostics are able to achieve a Righteous view of other Faiths, but mods can change or expand upon this to enable schism reformations and the like without too much trouble.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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I have some questions about religion:
1. Is there a doctrine for how the Religious Head is chosen? For example, if it uses a College of Cardinals or another way of appointing him.
I think this is covered by one of the Main Doctrines. Catholics get "Theocratic". It might also be handled through a "Head of Faith" doctrine as shown in DD 20.
 

Rhapture

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Esoteric Education??
Is this a new type of child education or just a new name for a Learning based education?
Reincarnation , Sun Worship, Auspicious Birthright !?!
Players are going to going full piety to form all sorts of new Faiths when the game is released.
 

Baron von Shoes

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Will fervor be a map encompassing thing for that entire faith? Or is there any chance we might have more localized fervor / moral authority?
Fervor is global for the entire Faith. However, the more dynamic nature of the Fervor system means that Faiths simply won't end up in the 'heresy death-spiral' that CK2 had, since Fervor will jump back up after an outbreak and give the original Faith some breathing room to recover and deal with the heretics.
 

fodazd

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I think that making holy wars cost fervor to declare and giving the target a fervor bonus when they lose is a really good change. It will hopefully prevent situations typical for CK2, where one faith sits at a permanent 100 MA for winning a lot of holy wars, and every other religion falls into a death spiral of low MA. It also means that you can no longer use holy wars as a basically free CB for grabbing unlimited land.

I am curious how the faith hostility system will play out in practice, but it does seem to differentiate the three religious families from each other significantly, which I appreciate.
 
Dec 21, 2016
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why only unreformed pagan?
heresy outbreak looks like a good idea
but not sure about only ruler can start it part
was hoping sun worship give more then less desert attrition
what are the actual effect of miracle worker?
 

viola

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The new Fervor system sounds like a big improvement on the moral authority system, especially since it seems it will generally exist in a state of constant flux (keeping things spicy) and that bigger religions will suffer more from their own size and success over smaller local faiths (allowing for the survival of religious differences on the map).

For starters, the Catholic, Orthodox, Apostolic, and Coptic Faiths all have the ‘Ecumenism’ Doctrine, which changes the Hostility of any other Faith with the same Doctrine to just ‘Astray’, thus allowing these Faiths to have cordial relations with each other.
Is "Insular" going to have Ecumenism as well? People have pointed out how so-called "Celtic" Christianity (which I think is what "Insular" is trying to represent) was considered pretty much like a bunch of problematic Catholics that were slightly resistant to Rome's authority and had a few differences on doctrines (mostly minor stuff that got smoothed over time). I reckon that there should be either a "Righteous" or "Astray" relation between Insular and Roman Catholics (unless Insular is meant to represent something else).
 

LukeCreed13

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every Holy War declared will slightly damage a Faiths’ Fervor, while losing land to hostile Holy Wars will actually increase your Faith’s Fervor as the embattled faithful dig in and fight for their way of life
YES. Oh my God(s), finally. Having your faith threatened shouldn't weaken it immediately every time, it should make the adherents tighter in the defense of their faith, at least for some time. Finally no more snowball effect with heresies and holy wars.

this both protects the burgeoning Faith while simultaneously limiting its influence in distant lands.
Good! No more random Lollards spreading in Britain, Germany, Italy and Portugal at the same time :p

And OH MY LORD the doctrines and tenets. I absolutely love it, and I'm already starting to plan what I shall pick in my first campaign. I especially like the fact that most of them are not simple modifiers but actually influence gameplay, add events and new mechanics, change trait importance and so on. Lovely, lovely!
 
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