Dev Diary 2 - Barons and Settlements

Dev Diary 2 - Barons and Settlements

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Doomdark

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Hello again folks!

It's a new month and high time for another development diary. This time, let's talk about barons. In the original Crusader Kings, characters could only hold titles of three ranks; count, duke and king (though these could be called different things in different cultures). Barons existed indirectly in the form of provincial nobility, which, together with the clergy, peasants and burghers, had different power, loyalty and tax values. The player could fiddle around with the power values of the four classes, which would affect the tax rate and the composition of the provincial levy. As it turned out, this was one of the least successful features in the game, because the micromanagement was tedious and did not have enough impact to make it worthwhile. Therefore, in Crusader Kings II, the whole thing has been cut. Instead, each province will have between one and eight named settlements. A settlement is either a castle, city or church, and characters can hold the title to a settlement just like they can to counties and duchies.

Castles are regular feudal holdings, whose barons are normally in fief to the provincial count. Cities are commercial hubs governed by a mayor. Finally, church settlements are run by a Bishop (or Mufti, or similiar.) Like the four classes of Crusader Kings, the three types of settlement provide different types of troop levies and have different tax rates depending on laws. Unlike the class power of Crusader Kings, the rights of churches and cities - and the investiture of their leaders - should be interesting to play around with. (More on this in a later dev diary.)

Barony tier characters are not playable, mainly for performance reasons. (We do not want barons to have courts of their own, with the explosion of characters this would require.) They have a more rudimentary form of AI than playable characters, but will respond to diplomacy and might raise their army in revolt. Another measure to keep the character count down in Crusader Kings II is that you can have your vassals double as councillors (so there is less need for minor nobles to be created by the game).

What about the level of micromanagement - won't all these baronies require more player attention? Well, the whole point of the feudal system is delegation, so the short answer is that for dukes and above; not much. Granted, the dynamic around cities and churches will require more attention, but of the right kind and infrequently. The existence of baronies will also make playing counts a lot more interesting.

I don't have any baronial graphics in particular to show you, but here's a little something that Aerie is working on...

CK2_Diary002_01.png


That's all for now. Don't miss the next dev diary on December 2!


Henrik Fåhraeus, Associate Producer and CKII Project Lead
 

Doomdark

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Sute]{h;11791667 said:
So with no farming settlement peasants power is effectively gone?

While I agree on that move where will the peasant revolts come from? We can't have a medieval game without peasant revolts. :D
Peasant "power" is gone, but there will still be peasant revolts. In fact, they are the only "rebel" type, as such. All other rebellions will be led by characters, for specific reasons.
 

Doomdark

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I really like this system.

Will the number of settlements change during the game?
Can settlements change to another type?
The number of settlements can change; players can build new ones and potentially existing ones can be razed (except for the county capital).

The type cannot change however.
 

Doomdark

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Looks Nice, will every western soldier have their CoA in theit Coat, and change dynamically, it would be very nice ;)
Wouldn't it though? :)
 

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Looks Nice, will every western soldier have their CoA in theit Coat, and change dynamically, it would be very nice ;)
Wouldn't it though? :)
 

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So actual character in a court cannot hold any baron title?
Well, if you appoint some Baron to also be your Chancellor, he will be a member of your court. Otherwise, he will stay at his castle and mind his own business.
 

Doomdark

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Looks good. Have these settlements replaced the province improvements (roads, mills, etc) or just the class composition of the province?

If its only the latter then I'd be wary of the increased micromanagement (the class balance in CKI could be easily ignored) but its good that you're aware of this
Settlements can be improved with various buildings, provinces cannot. Your demesne size is counted by Settlement, not province, etc.
 

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What about kings with a considerable demesne (thinking about CK1 mechanics where a king could sometimes have a big demesne)? What kind of micro will those kings have to do?
Pretty much the same as in CK. If a king could have, say, 16 provinces in CK, that would be 16 settlements in CKII.
 

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If you are a duke or a king, will your counts be able to form new settlements as they please on their provinces?
Yes, if they can afford it.
 

Doomdark

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So what exactly does this mean?

1) Characters who hold higher than baron level titles can also hold baron level titles. The demense limit restricts the amount of baron level titles that can be directly controlled. Eg. a king could hold extremely large demense geographically by choosing to hold only one baronal title per province.

2) Only barons directly control baronies and they must always be granted to them. The demense limit restricts the amount of barons you can have directly under you, without having to grant the province and associated baronies to count or duke. Eg. a king can with demense limit of 20 can hold 10 provinces with 2 baronies each or 4 provinces with 5 baronies each, but none of the baronies can be held by him personally.
No... All counts are also the baron of the province capital settlement. There is nothing preventing a character from holding several barony level titles himself: this is his demesne.
 

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Will there be either a hardcoded or softcoded maximum number of settlements per province? Of course I'm assuming that founding new ones will be sufficently expensive that in most situations it won't matter. Perhaps in the style of EU3 manufacturies getting more expensive per how many you have?
Yes, many province will have a scripted upper limit below eight.
 

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Will this work on levels above Count? For example, as a Duke, would I be able to appoint a Count as my Chancellor, as well as Baron (from my demesne) my Marshal?
Of course.
 

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Will AI character's traits influence the type of settlements and upgrades it prefers to choose?
I'll talk about traits and their impact somewhere down the road. :)
 

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yes .. if you rule them all as part of your personal demesne :)

@Doomdark

Now I doubt you will be able to hold baronies in lands governed by others?? .. fx. I will not be able to grab a juicy barony title in the land of my count vassal??

Also as a Count with a demesne limit of 3, holding two provinces each with 3 baronies, I could take two baronies in one county and one in the other as my personal domain?? .. and grant the others to my lackeys??

Do I have to grant baronies to courtiers?? .. and who can hold barony titles over castles, churches and cities?? ... can i only appoint ecclesiastical characters as Bishop of a church barony? ... and what id I have one such barony in my province, but no one to fill it ... wAm I then stuck with it until I find one suitable??

If I conquer my neighbour's province, what of the baronies within?? .. are they emptied of rulers, or do the barons stay in power, with me having to find ways to rid myself of them, to make way for my own lackeys?

Can a baron rule more than one barony?
For all intents and purposes, the Settlement is the new Province. Baronies work almost exactly the same as Counties in CK. There is only one hard limitation; the Count title is directly tied to the capital Settlement in a province. You cannot be the count of a province without also being the Baron of its capital.
 

Doomdark

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This is exactly what I was hoping for (and wished for in CK1). It should (hopefully) make you feel way more attached to your country/kingdom etc. and will really make playing a count actually interesting now.

Will these settlements be represented on the map? You say you can have from 1 to 8 so how are you going to fit all these in if thats the case? And if it is the case will the map show actual churches/catherdrals, castles and cities?
Most likely only the capital settlement will be represented on the map. This is still not 100% decided though.
 
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Doomdark

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This looks great! Curious . . . these features are similar to what peeps were asking for in the old "Crusader Kings Wishlist" thread (e.g. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?258246-Crusader-Kings-2-Wishlist&p=10834966). When you said earlier "I would not say that's our purpose with opening up forums early (the CK2 design is done and we are happy with it.) We just want the community to thrive. However, it is very interesting to see if your ideas are similar to ours, which might indicate whether a feature will be popular or not. Of course, sometimes someone comes up with a new idea that is both brilliant and fits our own design philosophy, in which case we might add it in. We've picked one such from this forum so far." Are the features referenced in this developers diary what you were alluding to at the end of this quotation?
- w
Nope, this one is mine.
 

Doomdark

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I would also like to know about this.
Is the limit of 8 hard coded?
Well, you can't go above 8, but you can script in any number below 8 as the maximum, per province.
 

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Would the number of settlements have an impact on the possibility of claiming/usurping a title?

For example, if Count A of X holds only the capital, but Count B of Y holds the rest of the settlements, would he be able to claim or usurp the title of "Count of X" because his troops are all over the county and it makes it his de facto?
Yes.

For instance, what if France owns half of Normandy and England the other half... could two characters be "Duke of Normandy", one in France and the other in England, each with his own capital settlement?
No, each title can only be held by one person. There are claims like in CK though.

Finally, can barons fight each other inside a county, as it routinely happened before in private feudings? Can they marry? Can they switch allegance if disloyal?
Yes. Lower level vassals are allowed to squabble without calling in their liege, or the liege of their liege, etc.
 

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Question: Do cities, castles, etc. stand for one attribute (e.g. cities for revenue by trade) or can they contain a set of attributes (e.g. revenue, defense)?
They can have many, though the main ones are Tax, Defense and Levy Size.