Dev Diary 12 - Challenge Accepted! By Boian Spasov from Haemimont Games

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Blizzard_Haemimont

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I like 99% of the things here, but I am not sure about the fixed order of technologies for each map. Some maps, like Mons Olympus, I may want to play multiple times but still be surprised - without going all Chaos Theory and have my first techs be spires and shuttles. Maybe there can be a lighter version of Chaos Theory that just detaches technology order from the map, but doesn't make it fully random.

Seeing that many people are expressing similar concern, we will definitely look into making a game rule that allows randomized technologies, but without the added havoc from the Chaos Theory. This will not make it into Sagan, but hopefully we will have time to do it for the next update. Thanks for your feedback!

edit: I can now confirm that this game rule has been approved and will be done for the next large update.
 
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Blizzard_Haemimont

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Are we ever going to see more building options or more dynamc supply chains? the ability to scult terrain? Actual social change over the hundreads of sols we spend? More things to build? A way to make sol 1000 feel in any way differnt to sol 100?

Yes.

However, I cannot say anything more at this time.
 

Magdaki

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I like all the changes except the non-random techs. Please make having randomized tech an option for non-challenge play.
 

Renver

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Me too, feel concern about that change of Tech.
In one hand - now, with my girlfriend (which one I have finally push into arms of Mars :D but it was hard) we can play that same coordinated map and have that same feeling and chances, and now, we are able to compare our plays.
But in the other hand - randomization of techs, makes me play some maps more times, than one. This time, it will be pointless because all openings will be the same.
I'm looking forward this patch, but I have faith that You will do something with that techs idea, please.
And I'm looking at the horizon, but i can't see anything. I hope it will be something huge, but as I assume, it is really far away from us.
 

mizushimo

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I think having fixed techs for each map is going to be interesting, but the randomized tech did make the maps more replayable. I'm in favor of having some kind of check box that shifts the maps back to their current level of randomization when checked at the start of a game.
 

Ex Mudder

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Rover batteries always felt like make work to me, and concrete harvesting quickly became annoying.
Being able to choose random vs non random techs on a map is a good improvement as well.
Looking forward to starting a new game when the patch is released.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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Each Challenge has a time limit to be "completed" - you will fail if the objective is not completed during this time. If you manage to finish a challenge exceptionally fast, in another, much tighter time frame, it will be considered "perfected".

Is there any information on what the "tighter time frame" is for each challenge?

I'd like to add it to the wiki.
 

Mauer

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Is there any information on what the "tighter time frame" is for each challenge?

I'd like to add it to the wiki.
The timers for both completed and perfected are displayed when you start a challenge, but I don't think there's a way to check beforehand.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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The timers for both completed and perfected are displayed when you start a challenge, but I don't think there's a way to check beforehand.

Thanks. I hadn't gotten as far as actually starting one, so I did not know that.
 

Walt (oc.ca.us)

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You are correct - it was fewer unique maps than I thought.
Out of a little bit more than 50000 maps, there are just 2101 totally unique settings in the database.
Before Sagan or after Sagan? Thanks in advance!

I'm very pleased by the work on maps! Early, it felt as if map geography (ups and downs) was very limited, disguised with random deposits, anomalies, and terrain features. Thank you also for variable research to come!

Disasters can outweigh skill sometimes. I incautiously sent my science rover out, and it took a direct hit from a meteor; game abandoned (about Sol 10; Paradox Interactive, so what research?) Next game, I put my rover behind a MOXIE and a water tank, and all three were destroyed. Sigh. Would a small radius, missile-based meteor defense system be unbalancing? Of course, where you could get the graphics for that is a mystery.
 

Walt (oc.ca.us)

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I would like to be able to repeat Wonder research to be allowed to place multiple identical or similar Wonders. I can think of only one that would be a problem. If you really want to fill the map, the Rare Metals from one Mohole aren't enough to make the Electronics you need. Disposing of the extra common Metal seems solvable, as is.

Everyone else?
 

MLT

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I would love to see a dozer added to move small rocks and grade slight imperfections in terrain so the Terraform cheats aren't needed for building. And if possible make the tube network between domes subterranean and ignore grade differences between domes like tunnels do. Add commerce between established colonies on other maps not just Earth.
 

Happy Marvin

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after a few challenges I strongly vote for a randomize option. I get the idea that the challenge should be the same, so it is comparable especially for seed* runs, but it breaks the fun for me. As it is now I start a challenge not to complete it rather then just learn how the RNG works. Every time I have in the back of my mind "this I have to do the next time". One option would be open up all "random" events (no hidden tech show all resources and so on) so you can make the same (informed) decisions you would make after a few playthroughs. Or what I prefer a different RNG seed. I know this is already in work but please make it also available for the challenges.

Edit:
* I meant Speed runs ;)
 
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Walt (oc.ca.us)

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I'm not sure I entirely understand, but I think I agree totally with Happy Marvin (HM) above--and PI, I think you should bring this to the attention of HG.

1. (As you've said, HG), the tech should usually be randomized; but also the standard names suggested for save should include the tech seed so you can get the same tech seed again, maybe something like 12n123e456t. Do whatever, but let me say, "I had this fantastic run! You must try _____!" As I interpret Happy Marvin, do everything possible to enable "seed runs"--never keep the final seed a secret!

2. I will expand on what Happy Marvin says: Have a "dial" for tech visibility. Normal is 1 tech/area. (I had a wonderful run where I got the automated fusion breakthrough before fusion, and I just pounded for fusion and then went all unmanned fusion. It was a delightful run!) So, 1 is normal; 2 is two techs per area revealed ... 5(?) is the whole first area of tech revealed, and so forth. Difficulty drops as more techs are visible. This is the difference between Chess or Go and Catan! All are very valid, good ways to play; they are different: some like one; some like another; some like all.

3. I would not like to see breakthrough techs revealed, but as long as I can set it to normal (zero, 0) then I don't care; and I might change my mind!

4. You should have different area, tech, and breakthrough seeds. "I love the 12n123e area, but I'm tired of tech tree 456! And with unmanned fusion so low in the breakthroughs, we need a different 'B' seed, so let's use 12n123e555t666b!" Some breakthroughs just "demand" you use solar or wind or fusion instead of the alternatives--you want to be able to replay these again a little differently.

5. [Maybe too hard] I've seen the 2-spire oval dome many times. I haven't seen the other 2-spire dome. If I could put into my "seed" "b89!" to force a tech into breakthroughs, that would be great--RNGs can have a long run avoiding something--one outcome is as likely as any other outcome--so give players a choice to force a tech.

6. The Challenge seeds, see (4) above, should be visible. I would like to play a normal game with some challenges. The mysteries are wonderful, but SM has a large gap between the mystery and all the objectives being reached. I understand the workshops, but I--just me--don't find that objective satisfying. I'm sure you have a long-term plan for this period in the game, but a temporary solution would be useful.

Thank you, PI and HG and HM!