Dev Diary 11: Stopping The Snowball

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

JustSmall

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What happens with the infamy when gavelkind hits and your realm splits into two or more independent states led by the same dynasty?
 
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WeissRaben

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Why are you so set against giving internal problems? Those should arguably the biggest reason for empires to be restrained, or for their bloating, weakening, and collapse. The HRE diluted because the Emperors tried to wiggle some concessions from a horde of vassals and ended up giving too much; the ERE started creaking when the old governors lobbied for hereditary rule, and got it; the Anarchy at Samarra, the English Anarchy, the dissolution of Al-Andalus, and the near collapse of France, were all movements that started on the inside. Sometimes they got a final push from outside, but those were pushes that a sane country of their size would have born without difficulties. So, why? Why add coalition, which are iffy but workable in EU4 but make absolutely no sense in CK2?
 
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So we have a new mechanic to slow down the player from conquering the world, and likely Nomads from conquering everything as well.

Interesting that I gain infamy from inheriting a fair maiden's land as well. I can't just play the succession game to rule the world. Does another dynasty member's infamy affect the entire family? Mostly asking to see how this will affect the Karlings and Abbasids.
 
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Why are you so set against giving internal problems? Those should arguably the biggest reason for empires to be restrained, or for their bloating, weakening, and collapse. The HRE diluted because the Emperors tried to wiggle some concessions from a horde of vassals and ended up giving too much; the ERE started creaking when the old governors lobbied for hereditary rule, and got it; the Anarchy at Samarra, the English Anarchy, the dissolution of Al-Andalus, and the near collapse of France, were all movements that started on the inside. Sometimes they got a final push from outside, but those were pushes that a sane country of their size would have born without difficulties. So, why? Why add coalition, which are iffy but workable in EU4 but make absolutely no sense in CK2?
I tend to agree. The balance of power theory had no real place in Europe until at least after the 30 and 80 Years' Wars. It's a step beyond tribal thinking which lasted a very long time and still persists in many areas today. Not only that, but from a gameplay point of view, EU4s coalitions have been pretty bad. So this all points to the fact that we shouldn't have coalitions in CK2. Oh well.
 
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Quaade

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If a vassal conquers stuff outside the realm you gain 50% of the infamy he generates. (this propagates up so if a count of a duke conquers something, the duke gets 50%, the king 25%, the emperor 12.5%)

And no, Infamy stays over generations. You can't be a dick then die and think you will get away with it.
Oh... Why not :-( those are my favourite things to do in the game, screw over any or all my subjects and then let the king die peacefully with the young heir to known as they holy :)
 

richvh

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Does expansion by peaceful vassalization count towards infamy?
 
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nOxr

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Yes, yes, yes! A most welcome addition! And it seems to have a good, simple and easily balanced design. Well done doomdark, groogy and the rest of the team!
 
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Damarrocarion

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Interesting that I gain infamy from inheriting a fair maiden's land as well. I can't just play the succession game to rule the world.

Well, there are quite a few cases where someone inheriting vast tracts of land did not go down too well with neighboring realms so I think this is fine.
 
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So will infamy be linear or softcap?
 
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Will we see stuff like Zoroastrian and Orthodox rules teaming up on common enemies (that be sick) if so dose that make it less likely that your church will call crusades against them?
 
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You gain infamy primarily by conquering land through war or by inheriting a fair maidens huge tracts of land.

The fairer the maiden the higher the infamy, aye? ;)
 
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Hmm. Infamy/badboy is always fraught. I hope that it's definitely situationally dependent. Eg some CBs should give less infamy than others -- something more "legitimate" like pressing a claim or Imperial Reconquest should give less infamy than naked expansion like Conquest or forging claims. Actually, there's a thought: infamy would be a great consequence for forging claims.

Not entirely sold on the coalition idea bc it seems really suited to the Westphalian nation-state (seems almost telling the DD used the word nation instead of realm) but it could work to prevent snowballs so I guess it'll depend on execution.

But I think I do like the infamy idea in general.
 
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If a vassal conquers stuff outside the realm you gain 50% of the infamy he generates. (this propagates up so if a count of a duke conquers something, the duke gets 50%, the king 25%, the emperor 12.5%)

This part sounds like it has the potential to break the game. Or at the very least permanently bog down players of a certain size. I mean do you even consider how aggressive vassals can be, especially germanic ones. I mean on the one hand I get that by doing this your kind of saying its the infamy of the whole realm but why am I being judged for their actions. Your constricting me based on things I can't control, and don't stand there and tell me crown authority controls them all.

And no, Infamy stays over generations. You can't be a dick then die and think you will get away with it.

But thats completely inconsistent. I'm a person not a nation this isn't EU4.
 
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TheDungen

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This part sounds like it has the potential to break the game. Or at the very least permanently bog down players of a certain size. I mean do you even consider how aggressive vassals can be, especially germanic ones. I mean on the one hand I get that by doing this your kind of saying its the infamy of the whole realm but why am I being judged for their actions. Your constricting me based on things I can't control, and don't stand there and tell me crown authority controls them all.



But thats completely inconsistent. I'm a person not a nation this isn't EU4.
The sins of the father...
 
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