Deus Vult Expansion

[Duuk]

Features I'd love:
* The ability to define more than one duchy and kingdom per province. This would allow a Kingdom of Greece and an Eastern Roman Empire.
* Ability to lose titles over time.
* Claims being lost over time (the game simulates "old claims" through claim grabbing anyway!)

 

[Sarmatia1871]

* Claims being lost over time (the game simulates "old claims" through claim grabbing anyway!)

That really is a must-have - with the current setup, it's not unusual for dynasties to have 50+ claims after 200 years of game time, which almost defeats the point of the system (and contributes to the cluttering up the savefile).

 

[Gratianus]

Can I change my primary title at any time and at will in DVE?

 

[unmerged(2456)]

The only parties whose opinion would be of any relevance in judging the legitimacy of the conquest of southern Italy would be the Catholic Church, the ruling party in Constantinople, the Normans themselves and, perhaps, the King of Germany. Who are the neutral parties here? Greek peasantry? Arabs? Norwegian jarls? I don't think that your view of "legitimacy" and that of the Normans are the same...

The French or Spanish nobles FE.

Of course, if the opposing party accepts the legitimacy of the claim, most go along with it. Same with the Catholic Church, atleast in the early years of CK. In fact, the latter it was quite hard to go against it unless they themselves had a recognized claim.

 

[Alexander Seil]

That really is a must-have - with the current setup, it's not unusual for dynasties to have 50+ claims after 200 years of game time, which almost defeats the point of the system (and contributes to the cluttering up the savefile).

BTW, wouldn't be possible to add a random event to do this? Isn't there some mechanism for dropping a claim via an event?

 

[Alexander Seil]

The French or Spanish nobles FE.

And, apparently, they matter more than the original owners, or anyone in the vicinity of Apulia

 

[ComradeOm]

* Ability to lose titles over time.

How would you manage this? Claims are one thing but historically nobility tended to hold on to long defunct titles. Even today the Spanish monarch holds the title of King of Jerusalem.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I think that if today's Spanish monarch were to attempt to enforce the claim, very few people would think it to be "legitimate" Similarly, English Kings held on to the title of the King of France until the French Revolution. None of these things are indicators that the claims are even remotely enforceable, that is, something you could reasonably start a war over.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

How would you manage this? Claims are one thing but historically nobility tended to hold on to long defunct titles. Even today the Spanish monarch holds the title of King of Jerusalem.

Be it historical or not, having endless claims is not good for gameplay, IMHO. So losing claims (just like you can lose 'cores' in EUIII) would be a good thing.

 

[ComradeOm]

Be it historical or not, having endless claims is not good for gameplay, IMHO. So losing claims (just like you can lose 'cores' in EUIII) would be a good thing.

Oh I have no problem with claims vanishing over time (although it should be a good while) but I was talking about actual titles.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Oh I have no problem with claims vanishing over time (although it should be a good while) but I was talking about actual titles.

Oops, my mistake o

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I think that if today's Spanish monarch were to attempt to enforce the claim, very few people would think it to be "legitimate" Similarly, English Kings held on to the title of the King of France until the French Revolution. None of these things are indicators that the claims are even remotely enforceable, that is, something you could reasonably start a war over.

This is because of an interalitional treaty signed after WW which gave states the right of sovereignty, unless just cause could be shown that they were historically tied to the claimant's country. Such a treaty did not exist in CK period.

 

[OUTCROWD1]

It would be nice to be able to give titles (and maybe claims) to other rulers, and possibly to courtiers in other rulers' courts. For example, as a French duke I free some Spanish lands from muslim occupation, then give them back to the King of Aragon. At the very least it'd be nice to be able to transfer titles to allies.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

There's a lot of things that would be nice to do, but won't be done.

FE:Have disputed successions and it lead to civil war. CK just can't handle a system where a clear inheriter isn't there and it can't handle a system (ATM) where the kingdom title goes away, the approrpiate heirs get claims and a war breaks out amonst all the claimants.

It also can't handle twins. Nope, every birth is 1-child or less.

 

[Rogan de Auria]

...Plus an all-new system for children. No longer will a 3 year old be able to run a realm effectively. Children are all now born with 0 stats and then develop over childhood. You'll never know how good your heir will be until he matures.

Good idea, but it will be better if instead of that 3 year old running the kingdom you use the stats of an older character, I mean a Regent, who can be the closest relative of the child or, for simplicity, the chancellor.

 

[Kurek]

It also can't handle twins. Nope, every birth is 1-child or less.

Twins would be nice. I was actually wondering the other day what would happen if a rulers 'first-born' turned out to be male twins, would the one that was squeezed out first be the 'first-born'? I imagine it could be further complicated if they were identical twins... Was such an event ever recorded in actual history?

And also I lend support to the claims decaying over time, sort of like EU3's claim system where if you don't actively try and enforce such a claim over a certain period of time it goes away. Use it or loose it if you will.

Oh and allowing multiple duchy/kingdom's to be assigned to a province would be rather cool, or enabling one or more fourth tiers to represent Empires and anything else.

EDIT: Another thing I thought that would be cool is adding the full date of birth and death in the character screens. It would be handy for when you find a nice young gal with a nice inheritance up for grabs (or stats, although I guess that wouldn't be as important in DV), and save a bit of tedium with clicking back and forth every month to see if she's 'grown up' yet. Plus it would just be cool.

 

[Duuk]

Now the important question with the release of NA...

When will the beta applications for DV be taken?

 

[Alexander Seil]

This is because of an interalitional treaty signed after WW which gave states the right of sovereignty, unless just cause could be shown that they were historically tied to the claimant's country. Such a treaty did not exist in CK period.

Which is great on paper unless you happen to notice that there are a few more countries in places they shouldn't be, according to the modern legal understanding of what a "legitimate claim" is. The problem is that there is no law above that issued or agreed to by sovereign states. So a "legitimate claim" is an oxymoron, because it would have to be legal in some legal framework that doesn't exist. The only way a claim could be legitimate is if the "victim" were to acknowledge it to be such. And the best way to do that is brute force of arms (as exhibited for the past 5000 years of civilized human existence).

 

[unmerged(45754)]

I wish they'd have a development diary for this already!

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Which is great on paper unless you happen to notice that there are a few more countries in places they shouldn't be, according to the modern legal understanding of what a "legitimate claim" is. The problem is that there is no law above that issued or agreed to by sovereign states. So a "legitimate claim" is an oxymoron, because it would have to be legal in some legal framework that doesn't exist. The only way a claim could be legitimate is if the "victim" were to acknowledge it to be such. And the best way to do that is brute force of arms (as exhibited for the past 5000 years of civilized human existence).

Unless a vast majority of the populace didn't agree with it. Brute force is possible, but won't fly in a feudal system as it would fundimentally break down the system of order and balance. This is why every system in the world which had a feudal system independent developed legitimate claimant system and while it was fudged around, liberally interpreted at times, few dared outright ignore it and those that did ultimately payed the price, or their son did.