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Veraxus

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Gathenhielm said:
Gamers Gate games does require some sort of internet connection since you download the game after all. IIRC it is possible to install it later on a computer without internet connection, there should be some guide about it on the site.

However it certainly does not require internet to run the game (at least not paradox titles).

Oh, awesome! I thought you had to had to install/play from an internet connection (like Steam). If I can download from my office PC and install/play from a CD on my laptop (like Stardock), I'm totally set! Thanks!

Are the other Paradox digital expansions like this, too? That would mean I could actually play Victoria: Revolutions!
 

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Veraxus said:
Oh, awesome! I thought you had to had to install/play from an internet connection. If I can download from my office PC and install/play from a CD on my laptop, I'm totally set! Thanks!


From the gamersgate FAQ:

Q: Can I download the game on my office PC and install it on my home PC which does not have an internet connection?

A: The absolute requirement for installing a game through GamersGate is an internet connection at the time of installation. If your home PC does not have an internet connection you will not be able to follow through the automated installation process.

If you have an internet connection on your second PC, you will need to completely download the package on your office PC, and then move over the entire downloads directory to your home PC by burning it on a CD. You will also need to burn the GamersGate downloader setup.exe file (or download it from the home PC). Then on your home PC, install the GamersGate Downloader and log in. Click "CONFIG" to set the target to your burned folder containing the game files. Click your purchased game and then click the "INSTALL" that should now be visible.

As I understand it, you must have an internet connection when installing the patch. So you need to install CK on your office pc and then download VD and install it on your office pc. Then you can burn the whole CK folder to a CD. Copy that folder over your CK folder on your home pc.
 

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Empty86 said:
Nice post The Phoenix, but I think the Byzantine loyalty bonus is actually a good thing. When starting the 1066, the empire always falls apart within 5 years, all vassals claiming independance, not very realistic.. maybe it's because the Dukas dynasty just sucks too much though.
The idea was that it would be combined with a better handling of realms so that they don't disrupt into nothingness, that vassals have to win their independence through a peace treaty rather than the model currently used.
 

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Well this is something I have hoped to come. Something new and refreshing.
I don't know if it is asked already, because I don't have the time to look trough 20 pages.
Will Muslims and pagans will be played officially(not whit a mod)?
And will there be normal CoA for Muslim countries?
I really hate these round shaped CoA's.
 

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The Phoenix said:
BUGFIXES
  • ...the inquisition was about combating heresy, not forcing conversions, and it was far, far, far less brutal than the secular courts at the time, having both serious restrictions on the use of torture (which was outright banned initially) and a requirement that the defendant actually got an advocate (it did not have any mandate to kill people by handing out death sentences either, contrary to popular belief).

Wikipedia said:
Contrary to popular belief, the Inquisition was not an omnipotent agency that had its agents in every nook and cranny of Catholic society. So-called "Equivocators" as undercover Jesuits agents were known only to be used to infiltrate Protestant and Calvinist foreign churches, but these cases were the exception, not the rule.

As the analysis of the Inquisition done by the historian Robert Gellately has established, for the most part the Inquisition was made up of bureaucrats who depended upon denunciations by ordinary Catholics for their information. Indeed, the Inquisition was overwhelmed with denunciations and spent most of its time sorting out the credible denunciations from less credible ones. Far from being an all-powerful agency that knew everything about what was happening in Catholic society, the local Inquisition were under-staffed, over-worked eccleiates that struggled with the paper-load caused by so many denunciations. The ratio of Inquisition officers to the general public was extremely lop-sided; for example, in Valencia, which had about one million people in the 1630s, there was only one Inquisitor for the entire region, which had 28 people serving him, of whom half were clerical workers.

Furthermore, for information about what was happening in Catholic society, the Inquisition were for the most part dependent upon these denunciations. Thus, it was ordinary Catholics by their willingness to denounce one another who supplied the Inquisition with the information that determined who the Inquisition arrested. The popular picture of the Inquisition with its spies everywhere terrorizing Catholic society has been firmly rejected by most historians.

Well there we go! Proof positive that the Inquisition was banal, procedural and boring. Isn't it so much easier to accept its core principles as basically humane?

Oh wait. Did I just take an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the Gestapo, and accidentally substitute all the keywords with ones relating to the later inquisition? Silly me!

I guess that's what happens when we learn enough about our historical forbears to forget what viscious, ignorant bastards they actually were, and start thinking their motivations were actually justisfiable.

BTW, that's a peculiar definition of "BUG" you have there.
 
Last edited:

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Empty86 said:
Nice post The Phoenix, but I think the Byzantine loyalty bonus is actually a good thing. When starting the 1066, the empire always falls apart within 5 years, all vassals claiming independance, not very realistic.. maybe it's because the Dukas dynasty just sucks too much though.

Anyway, I hope they'll change the current "Kingdom of Germany". Right now it behaves the same way as for example France and England, while it was really just some duchies under one 'emperor', who didn't directly control all these duchies. If France had declared war on Lower Lorraine, it doesn't mean that all of the HRE would be at war with France.

Besides that I also really really want a split between shia and sunni muslims, so Seljuks and Fatimids are not the same religion anymore.

And kingdom of France was just group of duchies nominally under the rule of King of France. I don't see a reason why HRE should be treated differently than France. Besides at the beginning of CK timeperiod HRE is actually more unified realm than France, but while France centralized at the end of the CK timeperiod, HRE decentralised as a outcome of long conflicts.
 

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Duke Leto said:
Well there we go! Proof positive that the Inquisition was banal, procedural and boring. Isn't it so much easier to accept its core principles as basically humane?

Oh wait. Did I just take an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the Gestapo, and accidentally substitute all the keywords with ones relating to the later inquisition? Silly me!
I don't know what point you're trying to make, but your tone does not seem to be very constructive. I take it that you've made up your mind that the inquisition was pure evöl, especially in comparison to the secular authorities at the time, but your utter lack of actual arguments does not come across as very convincing to me. The only thing I see is you building a strawman against my person.
their motivations were actually justisfiable.
Their motivation was to maintain the purity of the faith. The strongest punishment the inquisition was allowed to hand out was a recommendation of excommunication, of being excluded from the church.

Me saying this does not, contrary to your apparent strawman belief, mean that I think of the medieval inquisition as a thoroughly good thing. It still was a medieval entity, after all, and it DID allow torture under certain circumstances, and those who had been put on trial and found guilty were not always exactly safe from the secular authorities after being released.

So please, bring up actual arguments instead of going on a hysterical tantrum against my person when I point out that the effects of the inquisition event are too harsh in general and that the inquisition event only should affect same-religion heretics.
 

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Duke Leto said:
Well there we go! Proof positive that the Inquisition was banal, procedural and boring. Isn't it so much easier to accept its core principles as basically humane?

Oh wait. Did I just take an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the Gestapo, and accidentally substitute all the keywords with ones relating to the later inquisition? Silly me!

I guess that's what happens when we learn enough about our historical forbears to forget what viscious, ignorant bastards they actually were, and start thinking their motivations were actually justisfiable.

BTW, that's a peculiar definition of "BUG" you have there.

While one may well have opinions regarding how The Phoenix presents his ideas, and how to view the Inquisition in a historical context, what you do in the above post borders on trolling, and hardly belongs in a thread such as this, and that goes well beyond Goodwin.

Might I suggest we stick to discussing matters related to the expansion, rather than subjects that are quite likely, especially if discussed as above, to get this thread closed.

In addition: The Robert Gellately reference was an early giveaway that this wasn't about anything near the medieval period, but rather the Third Reich or possibly mid/early Soviet Russia. So if you intend to pull these kinds of pranks again, you might want to pay more attention to how you mask your sources. But please do so in another thread.
 
Last edited:

Thaars

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vertinox said:
That would be quite interesting if there were events in which a courtier got another courtier pregnant and you get to choose what to do with them.

You could force them to get married or exile them both... Or if it turned out one of them was already married you could dish out punishment for such behavior or turn a blind eye ;)

I just have to comment about this one.

Because it just doesnt feel right to have a court filled with young men and women, and never does anyone of them get "romantic feelings" for eachother.

Its just not natural. ;)

I understand (altough i dont agree)the reason of why we arent allowed to marry them to eachother. But there should and could be some "accidents" happening from time to time. And even a request from two courtiers to be allowed to marry eachother.

It would add tons of flavour to the game.

Im really looking forward to this expansion. CK is my favourite game from Paradox
 

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First let me say that this was the best news I read in a long time on Paradox forums (Only a brand new CK2 with map modding would have been better). Here are some Ideas that I hope will be included in the expansion:

New Tags for cultures and religions so that we can have the sunni/shia split, differentiate the non-catholic christian religions, include zoroastrianism and perhaps include multiple Paganist religions such as norse, baltic, mongol etc.

Also new tags for province effects, character traits and buildings would be nice.

The ability of triggering an event at a specific date making historical events possible.

The ability of triggering an event for a specific person especially if historical events are made possible this would be neat!

As Phoenix mentioned the ability to return an event chain to the initiator i.e. making vasal->liege->same vasal and neighbor A->B->A chains possible

I know map modding tools are far to difficult and time consuming to make but It would be really nice to have the opportunity to turn off certain provinces in scenarios akin to the battle scenarios in HOI2. Right now it is almost impossible to make scenarios given that we have to fill out every single province with its rulers etc. if battlescenarios were possible we could have smaller scenarios focused on the crusades in the holy land or the reconquista.

It would be nice if we were given the option to play non-christian countries. I have always wanted to play the norse pagans. Of course this necessitates that the ability to grant titles should be given to non-christian which is definately needed anyway.

Please make marriages mean something.

More diplomacy options at peace and more war settlement options including forced marriages, vassalisation, conversions etc.

I would have added more court intrigue and relations between courtiers and countries first on my list but since that is already in I'm just happy! The new character development scheme also sounds cool!
 

unmerged(21937)

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Hallsten said:
Note that you'll need internet access to install a GG game, even if it's already downloaded.

EDIT: An old dial-up modem connection will suffice though...

It's not like you'll install it that often though. I've got Gamergate HOI2:DD and I've only reinstalled it once since getting and that was when I got myself a new computer.
 

Duke Leto

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You're mostly right Phoenix, I lost my head there. I would just point out that my own feeling, as a rational 20th century American, is that while one may observe to the ends of the Earth that the Medieval Inquisition's methods were comparatively humane vis-a-vis the secular authority, that doesn't change one important fact: It was completely and utterly pointless.

There being, at best, no grounds for assuming that Church doctorine was the sole way to salvation, and, at worst, no reason to believe there is any such thing as God or souls at all, the Purity of the Faith works out in longhand to the be preservation of the power and authority of the Church.

Whether a powerful Church was a civilizing or barbarizing force in Medieval life is open to question, but I'd remind you that the two great pieces of vernacular literature from the Middle Ages, Chaucer and Dante, were unequivocally anti-Clerical.

All that said, while I agree that the in-game Inquisition smackdown for random courtiers is extreme, I think it's quite appropriate for court officers. It's hard for me to believe that the church authorities would long tolerate a heretic/muslim/schismatic/jew/pagan as an officer of the state.

As an aside, Godwin's Law is, pretty neutrally: "As the length of an Online Discussion grows, the likelihood of a Nazi analogy approaches one." It was only later twisted into a moral imperative.
 

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Duke Leto said:
I lost my head there
a rational

It was completely and utterly pointless.

There being, at best, no grounds for assuming that Church doctorine was the sole way to salvation, and, at worst, no reason to believe there is any such thing as God or souls at all, the Purity of the Faith works out in longhand to the be preservation of the power and authority of the Church.

Whether a powerful Church was a civilizing or barbarizing force in Medieval life is open to question, but I'd remind you that the two great pieces of vernacular literature from the Middle Ages, Chaucer and Dante, were unequivocally anti-Clerical.
Is this an argument regarding what should/shouldn't be in the game or a digression on how much you dislike the catholic church?

All that said, while I agree that the in-game Inquisition smackdown for random courtiers is extreme, I think it's quite appropriate for court officers. It's hard for me to believe that the church authorities would long tolerate a heretic/muslim/schismatic/jew/pagan as an officer of the state.
I agree that having a wrong-faith "officer" should be bad, but spawning an "inqusition" event for it seems rather far-fetched. I think the case should rather be that such courtiers would be bad for the ruler's piety and that "politically correct" courtiers would nag endlessly about how they are much better suited for the position.
 

Duke Leto

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How about justifying my knee-jerk reaction against what looks like apologetic revisionism? I acknowledge that I was wrong in imputing you with defending religious persecution, since it is obvious from your sig that you take a dim view of anti-Muslim discrimination.

But remember that America is not like Sweden. The militant ecclesiastical power, Catholic and Protestant, is still very much alive here and very, VERY dangerous, both to the US and everyone else. I've got an itchy trigger finger from dealing with their ilk and got set off improperly. I'm sorry.

All that said, I'd suggest that a more logical and effective countermeasure to alien officers would be rising discontent among the vassals/barons. We have the precedent of the Despensers for that.
 

Tengri

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Duke Leto said:
But remember that America is not like Sweden. The militant ecclesiastical power, Catholic and Protestant, is still very much alive here and very, VERY dangerous, both to the US and everyone else. I've got an itchy trigger finger from dealing with their ilk and got set off improperly.

Wha ?
:wacko:
 

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I couldn't stay off topic even if I wanted to. I have no idea what the point is.

Anyway back OT.

Any chance of some info on what tools might be provided to make life easier for mod/tool developers?

Also, will the basic structure of the savegame files remain the same (I appreciate that the information will change but I mean will the character = { } format be retained?)

Just preparing myself for changes to the Parser I have written.