Oh, and I hope I can give titles to the Pope (for holiness) or to the knightly orders (for prestige/holiness). Crusading should work better if they administer the land I conquer for them instead of me trying to administer it from off in Auvergne.
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I'm pretty sure all Finellach wants, barring the possibility of Paradox designing CK: DV in his particular idiom, is the ability to mod the game to his liking. There's nothing wrong with that.
Duuk said:
I'm sorry but I just can't stand these kind of haughty and despising remarks any more. Note that I too am a Westerner, so for all I know everything East of Germany and Italy could well be called "Slavic" and I wouldn't see any difference. Still I do appreciate that knowledgeable and non-nationalistic people such as Finellach are here to tell me how wrong it would be.Nikolai said:
I have seen just as heated arguments between Scottish and Irish about the Highlands, or between French and German about Lorraine without anyone ever resorting to such "arguments" as quoted above (by the way, how minor is norwegian as a culture???).
There seems to be an unwritten rule on these forums that no one from the Balkans is allowed to discuss any cultural stuff without being called a nationalist, or being laughed at. That is simply sad, and I certainly despise the people who, often dangling at Johan's tail, jump on any occasion to do just that.
This will be my one and only post about this matter as I would strongly dislike getting banned.
@Finellach, hopefully you will post an improved cultural setup for South-Eastern Europe after DV is released, and hopefully we'll get user-defined cultures so that I can implement "Corsican" (a very minor culture I am sure
).
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Well said.
However, as it has been previously said, let's keep the discussion focused on the game, please
However, as it has been previously said, let's keep the discussion focused on the game, please
Is there any hope for some new scenarios in the expansion?
I guess wishing we had the ability to start at any year (with the appropriate rulers/court) like in EU III will have to wait for CK II.
I guess wishing we had the ability to start at any year (with the appropriate rulers/court) like in EU III will have to wait for CK II.
The no breeding thing really interests me. No more scouring Europe for that high-stats courtier...
Talk about missing the point... I'm dead tired of these silly discussions that have no importance to the game and only make bad blood in the forums. That is the same for any such discussion. To indirectly accuse me of being racistic, or at best caring more for some cultures than others, are horrendous! I demand an apology!Third Angel said:I'm sorry but I just can't stand these kind of haughty and despising remarks any more. Note that I too am a Westerner, so for all I know everything East of Germany and Italy could well be called "Slavic" and I wouldn't see any difference. Still I do appreciate that knowledgeable and non-nationalistic people such as Finellach are here to tell me how wrong it would be.
I have seen just as heated arguments between Scottish and Irish about the Highlands, or between French and German about Lorraine without anyone ever resorting to such "arguments" as quoted above (by the way, how minor is norwegian as a culture???).
There seems to be an unwritten rule on these forums that no one from the Balkans is allowed to discuss any cultural stuff without being called a nationalist, or being laughed at. That is simply sad, and I certainly despise the people who, often dangling at Johan's tail, jump on any occasion to do just that.
This will be my one and only post about this matter as I would strongly dislike getting banned.
@Finellach, hopefully you will post an improved cultural setup for South-Eastern Europe after DV is released, and hopefully we'll get user-defined cultures so that I can implement "Corsican" (a very minor culture I am sure
I will take this to PM if you don't mind since it has become quite OT and personal.Nikolai said:
EDIT: Since Nikolai chose to make it public:
Pray tell me where I called you a racist. As for caring more about certain cultures than others, when one starts to talk about minor cultures it certainly implies that there are major cultures which may be an arguable position, but not one I would ever agree with.
Now as far as I am concerned Finellach has always been a correct and polite poster, the cultural setup which had been implemented by Byakhiam in the IPs was strongly based on his work, and I can't see no reason why he should be bashed in such a way.
Now, where were you and Duuk when endless arguments about Highlands and Lorraine were developed I wonder. That was my only point, that people always find it easier to scream at Balkanist so-called nationalists than at others, especially when Johan has begun the bashing.
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Third Angel said:
Whats that going to accomplish? Are you going to spend the day PMing eachother about Minor Cultures in CK? Mainly consisting of, "No you're wrong" Taking it to PM is arguing for the sake of it, people have already discussed this topic on the forums, there's no need to repeat it so you feel like you've won the argument.
I answered the PM, but I have no intention of discussing this further.
His post made me feel like he meant that I was racistic. If I was wrong, that's good. As for the culture discussions, I have not participated in them so far by the simple reason that I think them silly and counter-productive. The cultures ingame are just names and means little to nothing, and I think it silly to make flamewars out of nothing. A thing that has happened a lot during the years here. I'm just fed up by all the discussions on the topic that accomplish nothing but bad blood between forum members, that's all.
His post made me feel like he meant that I was racistic. If I was wrong, that's good. As for the culture discussions, I have not participated in them so far by the simple reason that I think them silly and counter-productive. The cultures ingame are just names and means little to nothing, and I think it silly to make flamewars out of nothing. A thing that has happened a lot during the years here. I'm just fed up by all the discussions on the topic that accomplish nothing but bad blood between forum members, that's all.
I'm happy with the set up as is but I would like a more dynamic culture set up.
maybe with CK2. However may I suggest coding for some extra tags to benifit the modders.
maybe with CK2. However may I suggest coding for some extra tags to benifit the modders.
Very nice. I shall buy this, so I hope it's what makes me fall in love with CK. The vanilla game was too difficult, and... hmm, I dunno. Either way, I'll force myself to like it now.
Third Angel said:I'm sorry but I just can't stand these kind of haughty and despising remarks any more. Note that I too am a Westerner, so for all I know everything East of Germany and Italy could well be called "Slavic" and I wouldn't see any difference. Still I do appreciate that knowledgeable and non-nationalistic people such as Finellach are here to tell me how wrong it would be.
I have seen just as heated arguments between Scottish and Irish about the Highlands, or between French and German about Lorraine without anyone ever resorting to such "arguments" as quoted above (by the way, how minor is norwegian as a culture???).
There seems to be an unwritten rule on these forums that no one from the Balkans is allowed to discuss any cultural stuff without being called a nationalist, or being laughed at. That is simply sad, and I certainly despise the people who, often dangling at Johan's tail, jump on any occasion to do just that.
This will be my one and only post about this matter as I would strongly dislike getting banned.
@Finellach, hopefully you will post an improved cultural setup for South-Eastern Europe after DV is released, and hopefully we'll get user-defined cultures so that I can implement "Corsican" (a very minor culture I am sure
Talk about completely proving Johan's point. And you didn't even mention the whole Macedonian debacle.
Johan's point is that there is no consensus because the issues are very, very historically confused, with both sides having literally millions of links, maps, histories, claims, counter-claims, and other such idiocy for EACH AND EVERY PROVINCE IN SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE.
Pdox and Johan are always willing to change setups if they are proven to be incorrect. They've even created entire cultures for such an issue. The problem is that there is no consensus about the Balkans. The very thought of a Serb, Croat, Bosniak, Macedonian, etc culture starts flamewars that span thousands of posts.
And, to top it off, Paradox's legal sales in the Balkans are pitiful, so (traditionally on the forum) most of the people arguing about the setup in the Balkans are pirates. Johan himself has said that the Balkans represent the highest concentration of piracy for Paradox games outside of the PRC (which IIRC Paradox supports because the PRC has officially banned Paradox games as counter revolutionary - and being banned by Communists means you did something right
).Summary:
Cultural setup in the Balkans can't be made to make even a majority happy.
Balkans represent approximate 0% of the income from sales of Paradox games.
Ergo, Paradox is not losing money by failing to be more accurate in the Balkans.
Best solution: Call it all "Southern Slavic" which represents all the Balkans and let it ride.
Edit: From a gameplay point of view, it's better to have the summary culture anyway because it makes conversion easier and doesn't generate cultural revolt issues. This isn't EU3 which has related cultures so a Serb vs a Croat is, to the game, the same as an Anglo-Saxon versus a Russian.
I'm certain this thread once again convinced Johan that the choice to have one South Slavic culture is the best one available. Looks like enough time still hasn't passed from early 90s to be able to deal with nationalist issues rationally.
Historical evidence shows us that usually at least a generation must pass before people are able to deal with nationalist issues rationally.
And I already thought you were being insulting towards Balkans' peoples in your previous posts. :wacko:Duuk said:
I won't even bother to comment about your other *arguments*, I'm out of here.
See the helmets?Duuk said:
EDIT: Maybe more copies coming here would be helpful - I saw only 2 copies of EU3 in Serbia(and bought one
)...
What I find funny is that people who are often the first to bash us "Balkanoids" for flaming and arguing are actually the first one to start these flame wars regarding this subject.
When I dealt with this issue in the "Grand Culture Mod" before, all members from the area agreed and there were no flames or anything similar so I don't know what some of these people are ranting about. In that mod I divided the South Slavic into Carantanian (Slovene), Croatian, Serbian and Bulgarian tag. Added Vlachs (Romanians) and Albanians. No one said one word against this, and I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but people from the area were ecstatic for finally being able to play a historically accurate game.
Now for the corrections in game I don't even ask for such radical changes, I would settle easily for generalized culture tags such as: Slavonic for western South Slavic languages (Slovenian+"Serbo-Croatian") and Bulgarian for eastern South Slavic language (Bulgarian and Macedonian) because recently I concluded that for the time period dividing these cultures like this would be ridiculous and that a far better method would be to actually unite cultures instead of dividing them. And obviously Vlachs (Romanians, Aromanians, etc.) by both criteria should have their own tag because they are obviously not Slavs! But please do not leave South Slavic tag like it is because it is just ridiculous!
Now the borders between these ethno-linguistic groups is clear, the border of Bulgaro-Macedonian would end at counties Vidin, Naissus and Ochrid. From those provinces all up to Carniola and Carinthia it would be Slavonic. This is 101% correct setup and anyone who knows anything about the history of the region will confirm it.
A map how it should be:
And as for buying the Paradox game, you complain about piracy, well honestly I looked and looked and I never saw one Paradox game anywhere to buy. Even in whole of Croatia that would probably be mission impossible. I must order the games from other countries, like US or UK and you can't imagine what a fuss that is. Nevertheless I own CK and EU2 originals, I don't own EU3 because I am not really in a position where I have time for playing the game (I didn't even had time to participate in the forum until recently) but I will surely get it as soon as Napoleon's Ambition comes out because I don't want to get into all that fuss two times in short time period.
And last I see people speak about nationalism? Where was anyone here acting like a hardcore nationalists? I really think some people just aren't able to read with understanding what is actually written.
I am out too....ta ta...
When I dealt with this issue in the "Grand Culture Mod" before, all members from the area agreed and there were no flames or anything similar so I don't know what some of these people are ranting about. In that mod I divided the South Slavic into Carantanian (Slovene), Croatian, Serbian and Bulgarian tag. Added Vlachs (Romanians) and Albanians. No one said one word against this, and I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but people from the area were ecstatic for finally being able to play a historically accurate game.
Now for the corrections in game I don't even ask for such radical changes, I would settle easily for generalized culture tags such as: Slavonic for western South Slavic languages (Slovenian+"Serbo-Croatian") and Bulgarian for eastern South Slavic language (Bulgarian and Macedonian) because recently I concluded that for the time period dividing these cultures like this would be ridiculous and that a far better method would be to actually unite cultures instead of dividing them. And obviously Vlachs (Romanians, Aromanians, etc.) by both criteria should have their own tag because they are obviously not Slavs! But please do not leave South Slavic tag like it is because it is just ridiculous!
Now the borders between these ethno-linguistic groups is clear, the border of Bulgaro-Macedonian would end at counties Vidin, Naissus and Ochrid. From those provinces all up to Carniola and Carinthia it would be Slavonic. This is 101% correct setup and anyone who knows anything about the history of the region will confirm it.
A map how it should be:
And as for buying the Paradox game, you complain about piracy, well honestly I looked and looked and I never saw one Paradox game anywhere to buy. Even in whole of Croatia that would probably be mission impossible. I must order the games from other countries, like US or UK and you can't imagine what a fuss that is. Nevertheless I own CK and EU2 originals, I don't own EU3 because I am not really in a position where I have time for playing the game (I didn't even had time to participate in the forum until recently) but I will surely get it as soon as Napoleon's Ambition comes out because I don't want to get into all that fuss two times in short time period.
And last I see people speak about nationalism? Where was anyone here acting like a hardcore nationalists? I really think some people just aren't able to read with understanding what is actually written.
I am out too....ta ta...
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